HIS HONOUR JUDGE RICHARDSON
1.
This is an appeal by Mrs Karen Williams (“the Claimant”) against part of
a judgment of the Employment Tribunal sitting in Newcastle (Employment Judge
Shepherd presiding) dated 2 July 2010.
2.
It is convenient first to say a word about the claims and the parties
who were involved in the proceedings. In addition to the Claimant’s claims the
Tribunal heard and determined at the same time claims brought by Mrs Elaine
Reay. Both made the following principal claims: (1) unfair dismissal; (2)
automatic unfair dismissal by reason of making a protected disclosure; (3)
detriment by reason of making a protected disclosure. The Tribunal dismissed
these claims. Mrs Reay has not appealed. The Claimant appeals only in respect
of the unfair dismissal claim.
3.
The Claimant originally named Guardian Care Homes Ltd as her employer.
However, there was some controversy as to the identity of her employer, so
other companies within the same group were added as respondents. The Tribunal
said that any judgment ought to be against the various respondent companies on
a joint and several basis. There is a cross appeal on this question. However,
except for the purpose of dealing with the cross appeal it will simplify this
judgment to refer to the Claimant’s employer or employers simply as “the
Respondents”; and we will take this course.
The background facts
4.
The Respondents run care homes and have property interests. Ultimately
they are owned on trusts for a Mr Gary Hartland and his brother. Mr Hartland
was overall in charge on a day to day basis.
5.
The Claimant was employed as a regional manager with effect from 4 July 2005. Her close friend Mrs Reay was employed as the operations manager with effect
from 5 May 2005. They had been colleagues before. The Claimant’s salary was
£51,500 per annum; Mrs Reay’s was £100,000 per annum. Both had provisions of
their contracts entitling them to a bonus if the company operating the care
homes was sold. In the Claimant’s case the bonus would be £100,000; in the
case of Mrs Reay even more. There were other bonus arrangements at the
discretion of the directors.
6.
It is plain from the Tribunal’s findings that during 2007 there were
significant disagreements between Mr Hartland and Mrs Reay. By February 2008
both Mrs Reay and the Claimant were making complaints about Mr Hartland. Both
presented grievances alleging bullying and harassment, unfair treatment, the
setting of unfair and unachievable targets and a breakdown in trust. In early
March both went off sick suffering from stress.
7.
The Respondents investigated the grievances during March. Grievance
meetings took place on 11 March. The grievances were rejected on 31 March. Mrs
Reay and the Claimant appealed. An outside consultant, Mr O’Rourke, was
appointed to handle the appeal. He eventually held a hearing in June and
dismissed the grievances in July.
8.
In the meantime however, the Respondents had commenced disciplinary
proceedings against both Mrs Reay and the Claimant. In part those disciplinary
proceedings were based upon allegations of harassment and bullying. In part
they were based on a specific allegation of misconduct concerning a care home
manager, Mr David Robinson. This allegation became in due course the only one
upon which the Respondent sought to justify the Claimant’s dismissal. So we
will set out the circumstances in some detail.
The facts about Mr Robinson
9.
Mr Robinson was the manager of a care home near Berwick. The Claimant
was his line manager until she went off sick. He was suspended and made
subject to disciplinary proceedings alleging, in brief, that he had left the
building at a time when he was the only nurse on duty and that he allowed his
wife, not an employee, to remain overnight during a shift when he was in
charge. A disciplinary hearing took place on 9 April 2008 taken by the Respondents’ Mrs Fyfe. On 10 April 2008 she wrote to inform him that he was
summarily dismissed.
10.
On 11 April Mr Robinson sent a lengthy email of complaint to Mrs Reay –
with a copy to Mrs Fyfe. In the course of doing so he said that his letter of
dismissal did not include a copy of the disciplinary procedure neither did it
include the procedure for lodging an appeal against the decision. Mrs Reay
forwarded a copy of the email to the Claimant. Mr Robinson spoke to the
Claimant on the telephone.
11.
On 15 April the Claimant sent to Mr Robinson the following email.
“Hi David
Please find attached your original email and hopefully the
disciplinary procedure also. Don’t forget that you haven’t been sent a copy of
the procedure from Guardian so don’t let on that you have a copy or it will
kind of defeat the object of challenging the fact. Also they should have told
you in your letter who to appeal to and not over the phone (you were far too
distressed to remember what was said!!!!!) so remember to state in your letter
that you weren’t sent this info and once provided you will send full details of
appeal.
I’m pleased that I was some help and look forward to seeing you
soon.”
12.
The Claimant later explained that on the telephone Mr Robinson told her
that he had deleted his email (of 11 April) accidentally and needed it; hence
she sent it to him again with the disciplinary procedure which he also
requested.
13.
Mr Robinson had, in the meantime, put in an appeal to the Respondents.
On 21 April he emailed the Claimant and Mrs Reay asking them if they would
write a supporting statement for him. Neither of them did so. His appeal was
heard on 1 May and dismissed.
14.
It was common ground before the Tribunal that the Claimant and Mrs Reay
met Mr Robinson on one occasion while they were on sick leave. The date was in
dispute. The Respondents considered that the visit took place on 30 April,
prior to Mr Robinson’s appeal hearing. The Claimant and Mrs Reay placed it on
15 May, after that hearing.
Disciplinary proceedings against the Claimant
15.
On 6 May the Respondents wrote to the Claimant informing her that
disciplinary proceedings were being taken against her. The first charge was as
follows.
“That you acted in concert with Elaine Reay while both on sick
leave to communicate with and assist the home manager of Lennel House, David
Robinson, (to resist the company’s action) who was being disciplined for gross
misconduct for gross dereliction of duty and leaving the home whilst being the
responsible individual in charge for no good reason. This may have undermined
the company position on such a serious matter, the Scottish Care Commission has
been informed of this situation with David Robinson and has stated that the
company was correct to take this action. For you to have any contact with
David Robinson during such action may in our opinion constitute gross
misconduct.”
16.
The second charge was a charge of bullying and harassment. Disciplinary
proceedings on these and other charges were also taken against Mrs Reay.
17.
On 3 June 2008 disciplinary meetings took place, chaired by Mr Spruce,
the Respondents’ financial controller. As regards the second allegation
against the Claimant, there was no specific detail of any act of bullying or
harassment; the allegation was found not to be established. Mr Spruce,
however, found the first allegation to be established and to amount to gross
misconduct, stating that the Respondents believed the trust and confidence
placed in her as an employee had been completely undermined.
18.
In his letter to the Claimant dated 4 June, after setting out these
conclusions Mr Spruce also said:
“Whilst the evidence with regards to your conduct was
circumstantial it cast enough doubt on your credibility and reliability to add
weight to your dismissal. You were entirely unconvincing throughout the hearing
and you were unable to explain your conduct As such there is a clear inference that
your conduct was not acceptable and has wholly undermined any trust and
confidence in you.
There is also a need to place on record your conduct during the
investigation and disciplinary process:
Having reached the end of the disciplinary process pending the
appeal the company has found your conduct during the process to be wholly
unsatisfactory and misleading. Whilst on sick 1eave you travelled long
distances (whilst apparently not well enough to attend hearings) using company
car and fuel to visit and speak with a witness. Clearly this behaviour is
totally unacceptable and unprofessional. Given your seniority you should have
known better. It is the view of the company that this calls into question your
illness and whether you were deliberately avoiding the meetings.
It should also be made a matter of record that on receipt of our
disciplinary letter of 6th May you immediately cleared all personal belongings
from your office at Bowburn taking with you your name plate from your office door.
All of the above conduct has also been taken into account in the
decision to dismiss.”
19.
In his “evidence review” (in which Mr Spruce contemporaneously
summarised his reasons for dismissal) he said:
“Evidence Review
The key evidence was the trail of e mails sent by David Robinson
(it is assumed that these were sent by mistake to Elaine Reays company e mail)
and in particular the reply by Karen Williams sent on 15th April 2008.
At this time Karen Williams was off sick with stress but was
able to involve herself in assisting David Robinson who was being dismissed by
the company for leaving his post as the responsible individual at Lennel House
Care Home whilst responsible for over 20 elderly residents.
At the meeting on 3rd June when Karen Williams was asked the
direct question if she had met David Robinson face to face whilst off sick she
responded "yes" and also responded "yes' to speaking to him on
the phone.
The content of her e mail of 15th April was concerning
and show direct collusion and suggests to him to distort the truth. Even if
Karen Williams were in work at this time she could only get involved with the
situation if appointed by the company to do so.
The allegation was upheld.”
20.
The Claimant appealed against her dismissal. The appeal was heard on 28 August 2008 by Mr Kevin Smith, an independent human resources consultant. He wrote to
her on 8 October 2008 dismissing her appeal.
21.
The letter contains two passages which we should quote. The first
provides:
“You told me at the hearing that you did not realise David
Robinson had been dismissed, and that your meeting with him took place after
his appeal against dismissal was concluded. You said that you had only sent him
a copy of the disciplinary policy because he had not been given one, and had
not been advised how to appeal. You were off sick at the time and had not been
involved before this.
Response: You did know he had been dismissed because he told you
so in his email of 11th April. It is not true that his appeal was concluded at
the time you visited him in Scotland with Elaine Reay. His appeal was still
pending, which I believe you were aware of, and for you to have sent him the
email which you did at the outset, advising him 'don't let on that you have a
copy', putting words into his mouth, 'you were far too distressed to remember what
was said' falls far short of the standard of honesty and integrity the company
is entitled to expect of an employee in a senior position such as yours.
In so doing you were in breach of your duty to serve the
employer with good faith and fidelity. You had broken the duty of trust and
confidence. This is referred to in the third paragraph of the dismissal letter,
and we discussed it at the appeal hearing. You were not honest with me about
this at the appeal, which cast doubt on your credibility.
As I said to you at the appeal, the proper response to his
approach, particularly in view of the fact that he emailed you at home when you
were off sick, was to have nothing to do with it, as it was being handled by
one of your colleagues. Instead, you deliberately became involved in a matter
of great seriousness, which could have had grave consequences for the company.
It was no concern of yours, and you appeared to be interfering in a way that
was contrary to the company's best interests. You must have been aware of the
possible consequences of Robinson's conduct if there had been an incident
involving a resident, and the Regulator had become involved.
I accept that, in principle, there is nothing to prevent you
communicating with a colleague when you are on sick leave. But this was very
different, this was an employee who had been dismissed for gross misconduct and
had an appeal against dismissal pending. Communicating with him in those
circumstances in the way you did was in my view not permissible, and the
company was entitled to challenge your conduct in so doing.”
22.
The second was in response to a ground of appeal to the effect that the
allegation upheld did not constitute gross misconduct. Mr Smith responded:
“3. The allegation that was upheld did not constitute gross
misconduct.
Response: Viewed alone, that is correct, but as I mentioned at
the appeal, in the context of David Robinson still being within the disciplinary
process, the picture changes. You admitted at the disciplinary meeting that you
had had other telephone contact with him. Again, you should have kept out of
it.
I wondered what possible purpose there was in you travelling to Scotland with Elaine Reay at the company's expense to visit him, when you were signed off
sick such that you were unfit to attend a meeting with the company concerning
your own situation later that week. Your explanation was that you were up there
to see Carol, which was perfectly permissible, and you popped in to see him on
the way back home.
I do not believe that. A conscientious manager in those
circumstances would at least have obtained approval and clearance from her
manager and been open about it, but you chose not to. If you had asked for
clearance it would most certainly have been refused since the appeal was
pending, and I consider that the company was entitled to come to the adverse
conclusion it did when all the circumstances are taken into account.”
The Tribunal’s reasons
23.
The hearing before the Tribunal stretched over no less than 32 days, in
several tranches. There were more than 1300 pages of documents, poorly
numbered. There were 13 witnesses; some delays were by reason of illness of
witnesses. The majority of the time was taken up with the claims relating to
protected disclosures.
24.
Many of the Tribunal’s findings and conclusions relate to issues which
are not the subject of the appeal. We will concentrate on those parts of the
Tribunal’s reasons which deal with (1) the correct respondents and (2) the
Claimant’s unfair dismissal claim.
25.
The Claimant had a letter setting out terms of employment from Guardian
Care Homes (UK) Limited (not, as the Tribunal said, Guardian Care Homes
Limited). However the Respondents’ Mr Hartland evidently alleged orally that
management personnel were employed by a subsidiary called Care Control Limited
which was said to have no assets. Pay slips referred to various companies in
the group. The Tribunal, after reviewing this evidence said:
“It is quite clear that the Claimants were employed by the group
of companies and that the ultimate shareholder is the same. In the
circumstances it is appropriate that any judgment should be made against the
various respondent companies on a joint and several basis.”
26.
On the question of unfair dismissal, the Tribunal set out the applicable
law in paragraphs 11-13 of its reasons, making express reference to section
98(4) of the Employment Rights Act 1996, and to British Home
Stores v Burchell [1978] IRLR 379, Iceland Foods Limited v Jones
[1982] IRLR 439, Sainsbury’s Supermarkets Ltd v Hitt [2003] IRLR 23 and UCATT v Brain [1981] IRLR 225. No complaint can be
or is made of the Tribunal’s summary of the law.
27.
The Tribunal set out detailed findings of fact. These findings, which
occupy some 31 pages of its reasons (paragraphs 5.1-95), included quotations
from the documents in which the Respondents had given reasons for dismissing
the Claimant and rejecting her appeal.
28.
The Tribunal found that the reason for the dismissal of the Claimant and
Mrs Reay was their conduct, rejecting their case that they were dismissed for
making a protected disclosure: paragraph 24 of its reasons.
29.
The Tribunal considered the question whether the Claimant and Mrs Reay
visited Mr Robinson before or after Mr Robinson’s appeal. The Tribunal
concluded (in paragraph 39):
“On the evidence it had at the time of the dismissals, it was
reasonable for the respondent to conclude that the visit had occurred prior to
David Robinson’s appeal which was on 1 May 2008 and there was nothing that
would have led the respondent to carry out further investigations in this
regard..... At that time the respondent believed that the visit had taken place
on 30 April. That belief was genuine and it was on reasonable grounds
following a reasonable investigation.”
30.
The Tribunal then said (paragraph 40):
“The respondent held a genuine belief in the allegation that the
claimants acted in concert whilst both on sick leave to communicate with, and
assist, David Robinson, who was being disciplined for gross misconduct for
gross dereliction of duty. This allegation was reasonably investigated and the
respondent reached the conclusion that this conduct amounted to gross
misconduct leading to summary dismissal. The Tribunal is satisfied that
dismissal was within the band of reasonable responses available to the
respondents.”
31.
Later the Tribunal dealt specifically with the Claimant’s dismissal
(paragraph 47):
“With regard to Karen Williams, the evidence in respect of
communicating and assisting David Robinson was largely the same as the evidence
considered in respect of Elaine Reay, although the email from Karen Williams to
David Robinson showed that she had spoken to him on the phone and she admitted
visiting him. Karen Williams said in the disciplinary hearing that she only
knew of the nature of the allegations against David Robinson when the
respondent wrote to her. This was clearly not the case, she had received a
detailed email setting the allegations out. With regard to the bullying and
harassment of ex-employees, the letter of dismissal says that this was not
proven and therefore the dismissal was on the grounds of acting, together with
Elaine Reay whilst both on sick leave, to communicate with and assist David
Robinson. The respondent saw this as undermining the respondent’s position and
gross misconduct. As with Elaine Reay, the decision to dismiss on this ground
was within the band of reasonable responses. The investigations were within
the band of reasonable responses.”
32.
In a passage dealing with both Mrs Reay and the Claimant the Tribunal
said (paragraphs 48 and 49):
“48. The decision to dismiss was made by Michael Spruce, the
respondent’s financial controller, and not by Peter Cooke who carried out the
investigation. Michael Spruce carried out a review of the evidence. This
showed that he had given consideration to the evidence and his conclusions in
respect of each of the allegations were set out. The appeals were handled by
an employee of an external consultancy which had no prior relationship and no
continuing relationship with the respondent. He had carried out a reasonable
investigation and, although, with the benefit of hindsight, there could have
been further questions asked, the Tribunal finds that the investigation and
procedure was within the band of reasonable responses.
49. It was entirely within the band of reasonable responses for
the respondent’s dismissing officer and appeals officer to reach the
conclusions they did and the claimants were not unfairly dismissed.”
Perversity
33.
It is argued that the Tribunal’s conclusion that the Claimant’s conduct
warranted dismissal is perverse. Ms Callan has not put this ground at the
forefront of her appeal, but she submits that the email dated 15 April was
central to the Respondents’ decision to dismiss and that it was perverse to
regard this email as providing any kind of impermissible assistance to Mr
Robinson. Rather she submits that the Claimant, by providing a copy of the
disciplinary policy and advising him to ask to whom he should appeal, ensured
that the proper procedure was followed, which was in the interests of the
Respondents.
34.
We reject this submission. If the Claimant had done no more in the
email dated 15 April than send the disciplinary policy and give advice as to
the proper procedure, the submission would be tenable. But the Claimant (1)
advised Mr Robinson not to inform the Respondents that she had given him the
disciplinary policy, (2) summarised for him how he might put his argument that
he did not know to whom to appeal (“you were far too stressed to remember what
was said”) and (3) provided him with a copy of an email which he required in
support of his appeal. These steps were taken without informing those members
of management who were involved in dealing with the appeal. An employer is
entitled to expect that senior members of management will behave professionally
if they are contacted by an employee who is being disciplined by another member
of management. Put shortly, the Tribunal was not bound to find in favour of
the Claimant.
Sufficiency of reasons
35.
The Claimant’s principal ground of appeal, as advanced before us today
by Ms Callan, relates to the sufficiency of the Tribunal’s reasons
36.
Ms Callan submits that the Tribunal has effectively given no reasons for
its conclusion on this point. It should have addressed the following issues,
all of which were in play: (1) what “assistance” the Respondents found was
given to the Claimant, either in the email or in the visit and in what respects
the Respondents found this objectionable; (2) whether the Respondents reached
those findings on reasonable grounds; (3) whether the conduct was sufficiently
objectionable to amount to gross misconduct; (4) whether it was reasonable to
dismiss, given that this was a first offence; (5) whether a lesser penalty
would have been the response of the reasonable employer; (6) whether it was
objectively reasonable for the employer to conclude that its trust and
confidence in the Claimant was undermined. In each of these respects the
Tribunal should have given some reasoning.
37.
In this last respect she relies on a dictum of Underhill P in A v
B [2010] IRLR 844 at paragraph 31:
“It appears that the tribunal understood this submission simply
to be that a stricter standard of reasonableness would apply in circumstances
where the employee would be almost certainly unable to work in his chosen field
again as a consequence of the dismissal.”
38.
In reply Mr Brockley submits that the Tribunal’s reasoning is sufficient
to comply with the law. He submits that the Tribunal set out in detail in its
findings of fact the reasons the Respondent gave for its conclusions; having
done so, it was not necessary for the Tribunal to set out lengthy reasons for holding
that the reasons were reasonable. The Tribunal, he submits, plainly found
that the email was sufficiently objectionable to amount to gross misconduct;
and plainly found that it was reasonable for the Respondents to conclude that
its trust and confidence in the Claimant was undermined. He submits that the
Tribunal’s reasons were sufficient to comply with rule 30(6)(e) of the Employment
Tribunal Rules 2004.
39.
On this part of the case we prefer the submissions of the Claimant.
40.
The principles of law are well established.
41.
Firstly, an Employment Tribunal’s reasons must comply with rule 30(6) of
the Employment Tribunal Rules. Rule 30(6)(e) is particularly apposite in this
case.
“30(6) Written reasons for a judgment shall including the
following information –
(e) how the relevant findings of fact and applicable law have
been applied in order to determine the issues;”
42.
Rule 30(6)(e) is consistent with and gives statutory force to the
requirements of the common law. Thus, long before the enactment of the Rules
in their present form, in Meek v City of Birmingham District Council [1987] IRLR 250, Bingham LJ stated that, although
tribunals are not required to create ‘an elaborate formalistic product of
refined legal draftmanship’, their reasons should:
“... contain an outline of the story which has given rise to the
complaint and a summary of the tribunal's basic factual conclusions and a
statement of the reasons which have led them to reach the conclusion which they
do on those basic facts. The parties are entitled to be told why they have won
or lost. There should be sufficient account of the facts and of the reasoning
to enable the EAT or, on further appeal, this court to see whether any question
of law arises; and it is highly desirable that the decision of an [employment]
tribunal should give guidance both to employers and trade unions as to
practices which should or should not be adopted.”
43.
In this case the Tribunal made lengthy findings of fact, reciting in
particular from documents which set out the Respondents’ reasons for
dismissal. Its conclusions, however, contain virtually no evaluation of the
Respondents’ reasons, except in respect of the question whether the Respondent
reasonably concluded that the visit was on 30 April rather than 15 May. Contrary
to the submissions of Mr Brockley, we think it was essential for the Tribunal
to evaluate the Respondents’ reasons.
44.
The starting point for the Tribunal should have been the decision to
dismiss and the reasons of Mr Spruce who took that decision. What assistance
did he find was given? What did he find was objectionable about that
assistance? Was it reasonable for him to reach those conclusions? Why? While
the position may be reasonably straightforward as regards the email dated 15
April, it is not so straightforward as regards the visit (whichever date it
was). Nor is it obvious whether Mr Spruce was reasonable in taking into
account the fact that the Claimant used a company car (which she was entitled
to use privately) or company fuel, or did so while on sick leave. These were
matters which were not the subject of the charge.
45.
The Tribunal would, as Mr Brockley submitted, also have been entitled to
take into account the appeal and the conclusions on appeal, applying Taylor v OCS Group Limited [2006] ICR 1602.
46.
The Tribunal ought to have considered the principal submissions put
before it. These, we think, were for the most part identified in the
submissions of Ms Callan which we have already quoted. In different ways,
these all address the question whether it was reasonable for the Respondents to
conclude that what the Claimant did was misconduct and if so whether and why it
was reasonable for them to conclude that it was sufficiently serious to justify
summary dismissal.
47.
We do not suggest that the Tribunal’s reasoning ought to have been of
great length. Each of the matters which Ms Callan has identified could have
been addressed in a relatively short compass. But in our judgment they were
the essential issues for the Tribunal to resolve in order to deal with the
unfair dismissal claim so that the parties will know why they won or lost. The
Tribunal’s reasons do not sufficiently address them.
The cross appeal
48.
In our judgment the Tribunal’s decision that it would be appropriate to
make an award jointly and severally against all the companies cannot stand. An
employee has the right not to be unfairly dismissed by his employer: see
section 94(1) of the Employment Rights Act 1996. In a case where the
identity of the employer is in issue the Tribunal must identify the employer.
In this case the Tribunal did not do so.
49.
It is in theory possible for an employee to be employed jointly by more
than one person: this is no doubt the correct analysis where an employee is
employed by a partnership. But it is in our experience most unusual for an
employee to be employed jointly by a group of companies; and there is no reason
to suppose that this was the position here. On the contrary, the Claimant was
issued with a letter setting out terms of employment by Guardian Care Homes
(UK) Limited. The Tribunal should have asked itself whether this was a genuine
document, and if it was whether anything had happened to change the identity of
the employer.
Disposal
50.
The final question is whether this appeal should be remitted to be heard
by the same or by a differently constituted Tribunal. In taking this decision
we have regard to the factors set out in Sinclair Heard & Temperley v
Roche [2004] IRLR 763 at paragraph 46. We have heard both parties make
submissions to us on this question.
51.
There is no doubt that considerations of convenience and practical
justice point strongly to remission to the same Tribunal. The Tribunal heard
evidence over a substantial period, rejecting the Claimants’ case that they
were dismissed by reason of protected disclosures. There is a substantial risk
that another Tribunal, which would have to hear evidence anew, might be drawn
into consideration of these matters even though they are of no particular
relevance to the unfair dismissal issue. Another Tribunal would indeed have to
hear evidence from the principal witnesses dealing with the dismissal as well
as from the Claimant. In a case which has already taken substantial time and
no doubt great cost, it is undesirable to begin again, even on the narrower
unfair dismissal issue relating to a single claimant.
52.
As against that, we must weight the difficulty a Tribunal may have in
bringing an independent mind to the reconsideration of the unfair dismissal
issue. Having given anxious consideration to the matter, we have reached the
conclusion that the Tribunal may be trusted to consider the remaining issues
professionally, having regard to the guidance we have given. We bear in mind
that the Tribunal has decided the majority of the issues in a way which has led
to no appeal and that the unfair dismissal issue – particularly the one
relating to this Claimant – was not the major issue upon which it was
focussing. Now it can, and we are confident will, focus upon that issue
carefully and afresh with the guidance we have given.
53.
We do not think that the hearing before the Tribunal should be a lengthy
one. We suggest that the Tribunal uses the existing bundles, and gives a
direction for written submissions to be filed and exchanged prior to any
hearing. Any oral hearing will therefore be focussed. We see no need for
further evidence. If either party sees the need for any such evidence an
application should be made to the Tribunal and the Tribunal should hold a case
management discussion.