QUEEN'S BENCH DIVISION
ADMINISTRATIVE COURT
Strand, London WC2 |
||
B e f o r e :
____________________
SOUTH WEST LONDON AND ST GEORGE'S | ||
MENTAL HEALTH NHS TRUST | ||
-v- | ||
"W" |
____________________
of Smith Bernal Reporting Limited
190 Fleet Street, London EC4A 2HD
Telephone No: 0207-421 4040/0207-404 1400
Fax No: 0207-831 8838
(Official Shorthand Writers to the Court)
MISS J RICHARDS (instructed by the Treasury Solicitors) appeared on behalf of the Secretary of State as interested party
MR S CRAGG (instructed by Scott-Moncrieff Harbour & Sinclair, DX 46465 Kentish Town) appeared on behalf of the patient
____________________
Crown Copyright ©
MR JUSTICE CRANE:
Introduction
"(1) If in the case of a person serving a sentence of imprisonment the Secretary of State is satisfied, by reports from at least two registered medical practitioners -
(a) that the said person is suffering from ... psychopathic disorder ... ; and
(b) that the mental disorder from which that person is suffering is of a nature or degree which makes it appropriate for him to be detained in a hospital for medical treatment and, in the case of psychopathic disorder ..., that such treatment is likely to alleviate or prevent a deterioration of his condition;
the Secretary of State may, if he is of the opinion having regard to the public interest in all the circumstances that it is expedient so to do, by warrant direct that that person be removed to and detained in such a hospital ... as may be specified in the direction; and a direction under this section shall be known as "a transfer direction"."
The issues
"1. The Defendant is treatable within the meaning of Section 3(2)(b) of the Mental Health Act 1983 because medical treatment is likely to alleviate or prevent a deterioration of his condition.
2. In pursuance of a Direction made under Section 47 of the Mental Health Act 1983 by the Secretary of State for the Home Department it will be lawful for the Claimant to admit the Defendant to the Shaftsbury Clinic ... and detain him there for medical treatment."
"Although, as I have said, the two forms of relief which the applicant seeks are interrelated on the facts of his case, they are essentially different. A writ of habeas corpus will issue where someone is detained without any authority or the purported authority is beyond the powers of the person authorising the detention and so is unlawful. The remedy of judicial review is available where the decision or action sought to be impugned is within the powers of the person taking it but, due to procedural error, a misappreciation of the law, a failure to take account of relevant matters, a taking account of irrelevant matters or the fundamental unreasonableness of the decision or action, it should never have been taken. In such a case the decision or action is lawful, unless and until it is set aside by a court of competent jurisdiction. In the case of detention, if the warrant, or the underlying decision to deport, were set aside but the detention continued, a writ of habeas corpus would issue."
"In the present case the right to detain does indeed depend upon a precedent fact or series of facts. They are that (a) the applicant was a person who might be required to submit to examination under paragraph 2 of Schedule 2 of the Act of 1971 and he was detained pending a decision to give or refuse him leave to enter and/or (b) he was a person in respect of whom directions might be given under paragraphs 8 to 14 and he was detained pending the giving of directions and his removal in pursuance of any directions given ... there was no challenge to jurisdiction, but only to a prior underlying administrative decision. That is a quite different challenge and, unless and until it succeeds, there are no grounds for impugning the legality of his detention.
Put in another way, in the first category an applicant alleges that the detention is and always was unlawful. In the second category he alleges that it will become unlawful, if and when a court of competent jurisdiction destroys the precedent fact, as contrasted with a finding that it never existed. The issue in this appeal is whether a writ of habeas corpus is an appropriate remedy in the latter type of case."
The law
"First, if a tribunal were to be satisfied that the patient's detention in hospital was simply an attempt to coerce the patient into participating in group therapy, then the tribunal would be under a duty to direct discharge. Second, "treatment in hospital" will satisfy the "treatability test" although it is unlikely to alleviate the patient's condition, provided that it is likely to prevent a deterioration. Third, "treatment in hospital" will satisfy the "treatability test" although it will not immediately alleviate or prevent deterioration in the patient's condition, provided that alleviation or stabilisation is likely in due course. Fourth, the "treatability test" can still be met although initially there may be some deterioration in the patient's condition, due for example to the patient's initial anger at being detained. Fifth, it must be remembered that medical treatment in hospital covers "nursing and also includes care, habilitation and rehabilitation under medical supervision". Sixth, the "treatability test" is satisfied if nursing care etc are likely to lead to an alleviation of the patient's condition in that the patient is likely to gain an insight into his problem or cease to be unco-operative in his attitude towards treatment which would potentially have a lasting benefit.
If the "treatability test" is given the wider scope which in my judgment it should be given, then it becomes clear that the tribunal was deciding that their duty to direct the discharge of the applicant did not arise because they were not satisfied that medical treatment in hospital was not likely to alleviate or prevent a deterioration of the applicant's condition. Such a finding is not surprising when it is appreciated that the applicant's detention in the secure unit for medical treatment had eliminated the symptoms in the diagnosis of her condition on her first admission to St Luke's Hospital of deliberate self-harm and alcohol abuse and reduced those of reactive depression and suicidal ideation."
"As I have already noted, nursing care and care under medical supervision are also "medical treatment", and there was evidence before the tribunal from which the tribunal was entitled to conclude that over a prolonged period treatment, consisting at first of no more than nursing, care and gradual persuasion to accept group therapy, followed by group therapy itself was likely to alleviate or prevent deterioration of her condition, even if at first some deterioration could not be avoided."
"The expression "medical treatment" is, as I have said, given a wide meaning be section 125(1) of the Act. It includes nursing, and it also includes care and training under medical supervision. The width of the expression is not diminished where it requires to be examined in the context of the "treatability test". Medication or other psychiatric treatment which is designed to alleviate or to prevent a deterioration of the mental disorder plainly falls within the scope of the expression. But I think that its scope is wide enough to include other things which are done for either of those two purposes under medical supervision in the State Hospital. It is also wide enough to include treatment which alleviates or prevents a deterioration of the symptoms of the mental disorder, not the disorder itself which gives rise to them. Dr Thomas White, who is the petitioner's responsible medical officer, said in his report that there was evidence that the petitioner's anger management improves when he is in the structured setting of the State Hospital in a supervised environment. The environment is one which is set up and supervised by the medical officers of the hospital. While the question is one of fact for the sheriff to decide on the facts of each case, I consider that it will be open to him in such circumstances to find that the "treatability" test is satisfied."
"It was not suggested before us that the sheriff had misconstrued what is meant by the expression "medical treatment". It is defined in section 125 of the Scottish Act as including nursing and also care and training under medical supervision. In section 145 of the English Act it is defined as including nursing, and also care, habilitation and rehabilitation under medical supervision. Plainly the expression is wide in its scope. The inclusive character of the definition allows of other things to be comprehended in it and it was not suggested that the particular things noted in the English definition would not also fall within the scope of the Scottish definition, as indeed may much else. The sheriff was plainly aware of the terms of the statutory definition and indeed used its terminology to express the nature of the treatment which he found the petitioner was continuing to receive in conditions of maximum security. I see no ground for holding that he misdirected himself in law as towards the question which he had to answer.
It was recognised by the judges of the Second Division that the word "condition" in section 17(1)(a)(i) includes the manifestations and symptoms of the patient's disorder. The sheriff accepted the evidence of Dr White that "in the structured setting of the State Hospital in a supervised environment ... the petitioner's anger management improves, resulting in his being less physically aggressive". The sheriff later states "Medical treatment has alleviated his condition and should continue to do so". The sheriff found that although psychiatrists generally would be unlikely to recommend admission to the State Hospital if the petitioner had committed the original offence today, due partly to the current opinion on the efficacy of treatment, the petitioner has received and is continuing to receive medical treatment."
"I am in agreement with the opinion of the Inner House that treatment which alleviates the symptoms and manifestations of the underlying medical disorder of a psychopath is "treatment" within the meaning of section 17(1)(a)(i) even if the treatment does not cure the disorder itself."
"But he submits, and I accept, that that is a consequence of the fact that there is no right to detain someone merely because they pose a danger to the public, the treatability test has to be satisfied. This is far from satisfactory, because of course it means that the court may be required, in effect, to direct the release of somebody who is a real danger to the public. Plainly the court cannot be sanguine about taking that step. Nevertheless, as Mr Gledhill quite correctly reminds me, if the treatability test is not satisfied then it is my duty to apply the law as laid down by Parliament and not to make good any deficiencies in the legislation."
"33. Reviewing all this evidence, I am satisfied that, although the material discloses only very limited benefits to Mr W. of the treatment that he has received, there is enough evidence to show that Dr Page could properly have reached the view that the treatability criteria had been made out. I accept that the evidence of improvement is limited, but inevitably I put some weight on the affidavit which has been sworn by Dr Page in these proceedings. In my view, the material that has been provided, and to which I have made some reference, does bear out the limited benefits which Dr Page says have been achieved.
34. I should add that, in any event, it seems to me that whatever the benefit of the treatment meted out in the past, and which it is reasonable to assume, will achieve similar benefits in the future, there is evidence that further and different treatment might alleviate the condition or prevent a deterioration of it. I have referred to the proposals, initially for treatment at Broadmoor Hospital and subsequently for treatment in the Personality Disorder Service. Those are treatment with which Dr Page concurs.
35. I recognise that it may be said that those treatments have been proposed in hope rather than out of experience, and that it is possible that the various medical officers and social workers recommending such treatment do not necessarily believe that it is likely to achieve any benefits for Mr W.. But there are passages in the documents before me which make it plain that there is a belief that they will bring about an improvement: I refer, for example, to a letter which Dr Page wrote to the Medical Director of Broadmoor Hospital, in which she states:
"The view of the clinical team is that Mr W. would benefit from an alternative placement.""
"Barker is authority for the proposition that one has to look at the whole course of treatment. To do so, one has to look at the past, present and future. It is not enough to say that a patient is not receiving treatment at a particular time."
" ... [one] has to recognise the progressive nature of treatment in many cases ... there will be progressively longer periods of leave, with a corresponding reduction in the need for in-patient treatment."
History
"... neither are there sufficient clues suggesting a possibility of treatability in order to warrant detention in hospital, under a Section 35 Remand for Assessment Order. He cannot, therefore, in my opinion be admitted to hospital compulsorily, and certainly could not be managed in hospital without compulsion."
"Wherever [W] is placed, he is likely to display behaviour which again "draws in" psychiatric services. However, in my view, any resultant engagement of psychiatric services should always be conducted in the context of some other mode of "containment" than a mode based on any form of "detention for treatment". If, for example, at a later stage he enters the prison system and is referred for an adult forensic psychiatric assessment, and should the view be taken that any such assessment should occur as an inpatient, in my opinion he should only ever be admitted on a "transfer order" (under the Mental Health Act 1983).
"It is very difficult to form a view about [W] given the number of different reports and conflicting information regarding him. However the evidence of his stay at HMP Elmley has been that he has settled reasonably well into wing regime, he works as a wing cleaner and has displayed little behaviour of concern to prison staff. The past reports would suggest a young man with a pattern of violent offending behaviour who gave great cause for concern. However, [W] himself is at pains to point out inaccuracies in these reports and portray himself as a settled prisoner looking forward to rehabilitation in the community. The evidence in the past reports would reasonably suggest a diagnosis of personality disorder, however, his current pattern of behaviour shows little if any continuation of these difficulties. It is difficult to explain the marked difference between [W]'s behaviour then and now."
"4. On [W]'s current presentation and recent record it would be difficult to finds grounds to consider any referral for psychiatric intervention under the diagnosis psychopathic disorder. [W] appears to have benefited from the stable regime in an adult setting, demonstrated by the significant decrease in threats or episodes of self-harm and indeed an absence of violent behaviour. In view of his current progress I would not be considering any form of referral to psychiatric services and indeed I have great doubts as to whether [W] would wish to participate in any form of therapeutic placement that would increase his period in custody. Should [W] wish for further help from psychiatric services for his drug and alcohol misuse problems should those resume, or indeed for any other matter, I am sure this would be available to him on an outpatient basis in his local area.
5. I would be happy to review [W]'s situation once a full background history has been obtained by yourselves and indeed verified, perhaps a joint interview with [W] at that time might be more productive."
"Throughout the interview [W]'s mood fluctuated, sometimes changing markedly in a few seconds. At times he laughed in a gleeful way, usually when recounting an act of violence. Once or twice he became very slightly tearful. He was also somewhat controlling, trying to get me to express support for opinions that justified his offending, attempting to use a joking, "matey" manner that implied we were peers, and asking slightly personal questions. At times he tried to take control of the interview in an impulsive and somewhat aggressive manner, for example snatching a list of previous convictions out of my hand. On another occasion he suddenly saw a pair of scales in the consulting room, sprang up and weighed himself while I was in the middle of speaking, completely ignoring me until he had finished."
"Eligibility for Detention under the Mental Health Act and Treatment Issues
[W] Has a severe personality disorder which fulfils the criteria for the legal category of "psychopathic disorder". The issue of whether treatment could "alleviate or prevent a deterioration" in his condition requires more detailed consideration, as follows:
- [W] has firmly stated that he has no interest in psychological treatment. He made it clear he would not engage in such treatment, even if required to attend treatment sessions. In the current state of therapeutic practice and knowledge, some motivation to engage with treatment is essential to treatment effectiveness. Engaging in a therapeutic relationship requires at least some acknowledgement of dependency needs, and [W] does not appear able to make such an acknowledgement at present.
- The lack of violence during his current sentence indicates that a secure setting helps [W] to modify his behaviour. (the same phenomenon was observed during [W]'s periods in structured settings as an adolescent). However, this assessment did not indicate any significant internal, psychological change associated with these behavioural changes. There was no evidence that a secure environment has, of itself, alleviated, or altered the course of [W]'s personality disorder.
[W] therefore does not, in my opinion, at present fulfil the "treatability" criterion for detention under the Mental Health Act.
It is, however, important to emphases that [W] is still a young man and that treatments for severe personality disorder are currently being developed. The fact he is not, in my opinion, amenable to treatment at present does not necessarily mean he will never be amenable. In the likely event he commits another serious offence, I would recommend that further psychological assessment of his suitability for treatment be carried out at that time."
"It is not in my view appropriate to require [W] to undergo psychological treatment after his release from prison. He does not have the capacity to engage with available treatments at present, and such a requirement would inevitably bring failure. Failure would in turn prejudice [W]'s chance of accessing potential helpful treatments in the future."
"[W] is a young man and may mature over the next few years. Should he commit another issues offence, or express an interest in any form of psychological intervention, a further assessment of his amenability to treatment should be made."
"There is no conclusive evidence that he has benefited from the environment of prison specifically in relation to reduction of symptoms and manifestations of his personality."
"He stated that he is not willing to engage in any group work or in one-to-one work and is unable at this time to acknowledge that there are any areas in his personality that need to be assessed further or that he needs help with."
"At this present time it is most unlikely that [W] will benefit from treatment for his personality disorder or behaviour. Treatment would therefore neither alleviate or prevent further deterioration of his personality disorder. Within the scope of treatment, individual or group therapy or indeed the treatment structure of a hospital at present are unlikely to yield a benefit ...
Indeed it is possible from recent interview evidence that compulsory detention and treatment, at this point in time, may increase his anger and resistance and reduce his ability to engage."
"He has a history of escalating violence leading up to this recent offence of GBH with intent. As an adult his history suggests the development of a personality disorder characterised by low tolerance of frustration, outbursts of anger and aggression, lack of concern for himself and others, lack of capacity to experience guilt, difficulty in trusting others, a tendency to minimise past behaviour and a persistent anti-authoritarian attitude. He fulfils the criteria for psychopathic disorder.
Within the rigid structure of the prison setting he at first continued to display violent and self-destructive behaviour. With the move to the adult estate his disturbed behaviour is less evident but his history suggests that upon his release to the community his mental state will deteriorate with subsequent risk to himself and others. Admission to hospital will allow for a period of assessment and stabilisation followed by a phased discharge to the community. Whilst there may be some initial deterioration in his condition in the longer term a hospital admission at this time should prevent the deterioration that would follow an unsupported discharge to the community. At interview he made it clear that he did not wish to accept any support from probation or other services if discharged to the community at this time. I believe his mental disorder is of a nature which makes detention in hospital appropriate."
"[W] suffers from personality disorder characterised by anger and aggression with extreme violence. He has a lack of remorse and concern for others. Also he displays difficulty trusting others and minimises past violent behaviour. He has a lack of emotion and shows a lack of responsibility in relation to violent acts.
The nature and degree of his disorder is such that he requires urgent transfer to hospital because unsupported discharge to the community is likely to result in a rapid deterioration of his condition. Urgent treatment is needed to prevent such deterioration on his release from prison with when its structure is imminent.
Admission is required for further hospital based assessment of his disorder and risk and also a subsequent staged discharge into the community."
"What appears to have occurred, according to Professor Eastman, is that there was a further multi agency team meeting at the Shaftsbury Clinic on 25 June where there were members of both the police, Probation and the Shaftsbury Clinical team as well as Dr Dunkley. The conclusion of the meeting was that [W] posed a very high risk of serious re-offending, however, it will be noted that Professor Eastman refers to a fact which I believe is in fact quite incorrect and therefore must have had a significant influence on their conclusions, namely, that the index offence appeared to be unprovoked and on a complete stranger. I believe there is good evidence that this piece of evidence cited by Professor Eastman is almost certainly untrue and therefore their conclusions inevitably one must assume were in fact flawed."
Conclusions in relation to the transfer direction
"In reaching this decision account has been taken of all the documents in the court bundle, the witness statement produced by Professor Nigel Eastman for the court hearing on 2 July, additional information provided on Professor Eastman's behalf by Counsel for the Trust to Counsel for the Home Office and the representations made on [W]'s behalf in your letter of 2 July. Account has also been taken of information provided by the Sussex Probation Service and Sussex Police.
The additional information provided on Professor Eastman's behalf was to the effect that [W] is someone who copes badly with change, in particular sudden change, and with the loss of structure which would follow on leaving prison; that admission to and treatment in hospital would prevent a deterioration of the manifestations of his condition; that the aim of his admission would be to help him to manage change and to decrease the worsening of his condition which would otherwise result; that he would in hospital receive treatment in the form of rehabilitation under medical supervision; that he was extremely dangerous; that without such intervention he was at a high risk of committing serious offences; and that whilst further assessment of [W] would be beneficial, the programme of staged discharge which was envisaged did not depend upon further assessment. It was also explained on Professor Eastman's behalf that what was envisaged was that [W] would remain in hospital for several months during which time the aim would be for him to have increasing leave linked to occupational therapy and to establish links with a mental health hostel.
All the medical evidence before us is in agreement that [W] suffers from psychopathic disorder within the meaning of the Mental Health Act 1983. Although they had taken a different view on [W]'s treatability in their earlier reports, the medical reports prepared by Dr Dhar and Dr Dunkley on 26 June 2002 both give the opinion under the heading "Section 3 Declaration" that the mental disorder from which [W] is suffering is of a nature or degree which makes it appropriate for him to be detained in a hospital for medical treatment, and that such treatment is likely to alleviate or prevent a deterioration of his condition. Dr Dhar's report indicates that unless [W] is transferred urgently to hospital there is likely to be rapid deterioration in his condition but this can be prevented by transfer to hospital. Dr Dunkley's report indicates that in the longer term a hospital admission should prevent a deterioration in [W]'s mental condition. This evidence is supplemented by the witness statement prepared by Professor Eastman, which gives a clear indication that, in his opinion, [W] would benefit from treatment of his mental disorder as an in-patient in hospital. Professor Eastman draws attention to treatability in the wider sense, in terms of providing not just treatment of [W]'s underlying disorder, but also its manifestations, and expresses the view that treatment would be likely to prevent a deterioration of the manifestations of his disorder. Professor Eastman has also made clear that, in addition to a better assessment of [W]'s personality disorder and functioning, admission to hospital would enable his rehabilitation under medical supervision, which fully accords with the definition of "medical treatment" under the 1983 Act.
Following consideration of all of the evidence, including the additional information from Professor Eastman, and following consideration of the representations in your letter dated 2 July 2002, the Secretary of State was satisfied that the criteria set out in s.47(1)(1) and (b) of the 1983 Act were fulfilled.
In reaching the decision to make a transfer direction the Secretary of State also took account of the views of the police and probation service with regard to [W]. I spoke yesterday morning to representatives of the Sussex Police and the Sussex Probation Service. They both expressed serious concerns about [W]'s potential dangerousness, especially to members of his family, and the likelihood that if he is released into the community he will almost certainly be exposed to drugs which would increase further the risk of re-offending.
I am fully aware that the decision has been made on the eve of [W]'s conditional release date from prison. This factor was taken into account by the Secretary of State when deciding whether to make the Transfer direction. Nevertheless it was considered that in light of the high risk which [W] poses and having regard to the public interest it was expedient and appropriate to make the direction for [W]'s removal to and detention in the Shaftsbury Clinic.
Consideration was given to whether this objective might be met by other means as indicated in your letter. However, in terms of s.2 of the 1983 Act the Secretary of State has noted that the Trust considers that what it is intending to provide is treatment and circumstances now dictate that there is not time to fulfil the processes required by Section 3 of the Act.
In view of the release date from prison, the Transfer direction issued yesterday is without restrictions."
Since 3rd July
"In summary, [W]'s behaviour over the four weeks of his admission indicated he could not be managed safely in medium security over the long term. His subsequent escape, which appears to have been planned and which involved another patient creating a diversion, clearly supports this view."
"Whatever the reasons for his co-operation [that is with her], he was able, with feedback in a measured response, to override a strong impulse to become aggressive and dismissive in response to difficulty with a task. He also demonstrated a capacity to focus, concentrate and persevere that suggests he might, under appropriate conditions, be able to develop more pro-social life skills."
"In the four weeks of [W]'s admission to the Shaftsbury Clinic, he has demonstrated a capacity, albeit limited, for engagement in psychological work through the process of psychometric assessment. This capacity has included:
- an ability to respond to feedback;
- an ability to overcome the impulse to give up irritably in the face of difficulty or challenge;
- some ability to control his behaviour in terms of stress; and
- an ability to focus and concentrate on a task, and to seek guidance in a reasonably collaborative manner."
"[W]'s sustained concentration during the process of psychometric testing is particularly noteworthy as his hyperactivity, diagnosed in his early childhood, appears to have caused major disruption to his schooling, and may have prevented him from realising his full potential in terms of his natural ability."
My conclusions about the present detention
MR JUSTICE CRANE: Now, perhaps I could ask you, first of all, Miss Morris. I take it you would be inviting me to make declarations in terms of your original application?
MISS MORRIS: My Lord, yes. It is at page 3 of the bundle.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: Yes. It seems to me that the declaration should be modified along these lines: "The defendant was at the time of the transfer order treatable for the purposes -- I think it would be better to say of section 47(1) of the Mental Health Act 1983 -- because medical treatment was likely to alleviate or prevent a deterioration in his condition".
MISS MORRIS: My Lord, I would be satisfied with a declaration in those terms.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: If possible also to have a declaration: "In pursuance of the direction made under section 47 et cetera it was lawful for the claimant to admit the defendant to the Shaftsbury Clinic and to detain him there for medical treatment".
MISS MORRIS: My Lord, I would ask the court to go further and deal with the position that my Lord identified post the date and ask for a reformulation of what was paragraph 1 to relate to, perhaps, the day of today's judgment, because inevitably any declaration is made with the implication that it is on the facts of the day on which the declaration was made.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: I follow that. Paragraph 1 could be expanded by saying "and has hitherto continued to be so treatable".
MISS MORRIS: I would be happy with a declaration in those terms.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: Yes. That will need to be properly drafted and can be submitted, but that would provide what you are asking for?
MS MORRIS: My Lord, may I just check. I would be content with a declaration in those terms. I am very grateful.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: Thank you. Miss Richards?
MISS RICHARDS: We have no observations to make on the declaration, my Lord.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: Mr Cragg, what do you say?
MR CRAGG: My Lord, I have no objection to that formulation.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: Very well. If, Miss Morris, that could be prepared, checked with other counsel for its wording and be submitted, then I can initial that.
I think, apart from that, that the order should say that the application made on behalf of W is dismissed.
MR CRAGG: My Lord, it should, yes.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: Any other orders that I need to consider?
MS MORRIS: My Lord, you will see on the draft order that we have asked that there should be no order as to costs. I do not know if W requires detailed assessment of his costs.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: I take it nobody is asking for a costs other than detailed assessment. No order for costs then.
MR CRAGG: My Lord, I have two applications. The first is for detailed assessment of the patient's publicly funded costs.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: A certificate has been submitted, has it? Yes, it has.
MR CRAGG: There are two certificates, one for each action.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: Yes.
MR CRAGG: On both of those cases. My second application is I am instructed to ask for permission to appeal on the staged discharge point.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: Do you have a draft? I know it is rather difficult to have a draft before I have delivered judgment.
MR CRAGG: My Lord, I do not have a draft.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: As precisely as you can at the moment, what would you be seeking to appeal?
MR CRAGG: Well, my Lord, the general observation that it is brought by the Trust on the basis that the law was unclear, and if your Lordship is right on the staged discharge, the third limb, then, as flagged up in our skeleton argument, it is likely we say that all otherwise untreatable people with psychopathic disorders in this situation will be treatable in some way, and in our submission that would have some implications for the Mental Health Bill as presently before Parliament and the current consultation process.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: I am not sure the bill before Parliament really helps you in this context, because although I noted with interest that part of it was annexed, and in fact I have seen the proposed bill and the consultation before, it seems to me that we are really not concerned with what the law may be in the future, one has very much to concentrate, as we all have, on the present law.
MR CRAGG: Yes. My Lord, there have been cases, and cases I have been recently involved in, where the Court of Appeal has felt that it could give assistance by adding its views to the current drafts, and my Lord --
MR JUSTICE CRANE: I think that would be a matter rather for the Court of Appeal to consider, might pre-empt what they should say about that.
MR CRAGG: Yes.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: In other words, I am not inclined to think that it is so important that this goes before the Court of Appeal that I should give permission unless there is a real prospect of success on the appeal.
MR CRAGG: Well, my Lord, I am probably going to have an uphill task of persuading your Lordship there is a real prospect of success less than five minutes after your Lordship has given judgment in this case.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: I think your difficulty is this. What I regarded as the core statement in what I have said was the transfer to hospital involving admission nursing, medical and psychological supervision and staged discharge under medical supervision was capable of amounting to treatment. In effect, I found that that what was on offer. Now, the real question is whether there is a real prospect of, as it were, upsetting that conclusion, but I think your difficulty is that in the light of the authorities it does not really go any further, certainly not appreciably further, than the existing authorities, does it?
MR CRAGG: My Lord, I think Professor Eastman in his evidence said that the problem with the present authorities is putting flesh on the rather bare bones. He has come to court and the Trust has come to court with an example and put that before the court. My submission, in the present context of the bill before Parliament, is probably more concentrated on the other compelling reasons limb of the possible grounds for appeal rather than seeking --
MR JUSTICE CRANE: I see. You say it is important enough, in effect, for the Court of Appeal to consider.
MR CRAGG: My Lord, yes.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: Anything else you want to say about that?
MR CRAGG: My Lord, no.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: I am afraid I am against you. In effect, I think my decision went little further than the existing authorities, if at all. In those circumstances I do not think there is a reasonable prospect of success, nor do I think there are compelling reasons why the Court of Appeal should consider the matter, but of course you can ask them to take the view that they should.
MR CRAGG: My Lord, I am grateful.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: On the arrangements for transcript, I have arranged that the shorthandwriter have my notes plus papers that I have. I am told that I can probably have the judgment by lunchtime on Monday. If I get it by lunchtime on Monday, I can correct it, re-submit it, and it could then be in a final form by Tuesday morning. I appreciate that is a pretty short time before the Mental Health Tribunal, but I think it should be available by the time they consider the matter because otherwise things are rather left in the air, and although what I have decided does not bind them for the future, the principles that I have set out may be of assistance to them, and indeed to Professor Eastman and the managers. They will have to keep the matter under review.
MISS MORRIS: That is very helpful. We are very grateful to my Lord and the shorthandwriter.
MR JUSTICE CRANE: Can I thank counsel for their help in the case.