CHANCERY DIVISION
Strand, London, WC2A 2LL |
||
B e f o r e :
____________________
Mrs Daad Sharab |
Claimant |
|
- and - |
||
His Royal Highness Prince Al-Waleed Bin Talal Bin Abdul-Aziz Al-Saud |
Defendant |
____________________
Mr C Pymont QC (instructed by Hogan Lovells LLP) for the Defendant
Hearing dates: 24, 25, 26 &, 27 June, 1, 2, 3 & 5 July 2013
____________________
Crown Copyright ©
Peter Smith J:
INTRODUCTION
THE PARTIES
THE COMPETING CLAIMS
MRS SHARAB'S CLAIM AS PLEADED
THE PRESENT DISPUTED AGREEMENT
PERFORMANCE UNDER THE AGREEMENT
1) He reconfirmed the core of the agreement made with her by Mr Alaeddin in London.
2) That if the sale price was more than $110m instead of the commission of $2m she would receive the entirety of the excess over that figure.
3) She asked for it to be put in writing but he refused insisting his word should be enough.
SUCCESS
SUBSEQUENT FAILURES
REPOSSESSION OF THE AIRBUS
SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT
SIGNING OF THE AGREEMENT
THE PRINCE'S DEFENCE
CHALLENGES TO JURISDICTION
EVIDENCE BEFORE ME
WITNESS STATEMENTS
TIMELINE OF EVENTS
ANALYSIS OF EVIDENCE AND FINDINGS/CONCLUSIONS
SALE OF AIRBUS/BOEING - MEETINGS
MEETING IN LONDON
AUGUST 2002
DISCUSSION ON THE BOEING
LETTER DATED 18/5/2003
"Q. We can see from there that there were no substantial sums spent on modifications to the aircraft whilst that was owned by you; correct? So if we then go back to the letter in bundle D1 that we were looking at in D1 at tab 45, it follows from that that when you said that "The aircraft price of $135 million represented what the aircraft cost us, including extras and modifications that were made to the aircraft since we bought it", that was untrue, wasn't it?
A. We bought it at 95, your Lordship and the objective was to maximise our sale price. So when you said 135, you had to give some justifications. So, yes. And actually, not only that, we have done zero modifications on it, not only minor modifications, we have done no modifications whatsoever.
Q. So it was not true when you said it cost $135 million, including modifications?
A. When I sell the plane, I have the right to sell it at any price I want.
Q. What you don't have the right to do is to lie about the original cost of the aeroplane --
A. I didn't lie.
Q. -- to the prospective purchaser. You don't have that right, do you?
A. It is my business to put any price I want. It is my plane, I have the right to sell it for any price I want.
Q. You are a man who jealously guards his reputation, so much so it is right, isn't it, that you have issued proceedings about your reputation against Forbes in this country?
A. Sure, sure.
Q. That is because you jealously guard your reputation?
A. Yes.
Q. Is it the case that you regard it as something that is available to you, if you wish to do it, to lie about the original cost of an aircraft in order to get a better price from the buyer?
A. We didn't lie, we just put justifications for the increase in price.
Q. What is the justification of saying that it cost $135 million, if in fact it cost $95 million?
A. I could have bought it for $10, I have the right to sell it for whatever price I need to sell it for.
Q. What is the justification -- I will ask the question again -- of saying that it cost $135 million, if in fact it cost $95 million?
A. I mean, what I buy it for is my discretion. The important thing is not this. The value of this plane was not 135, or 159, this plane costs Prince Jefri who was corrupt at that time, $250 million plus so at $135 million, that is a still a bargain for the Libyans.
Q. You see, it might be said that it is corrupt to say to a buyer that you have paid $135 million for an aeroplane when you know that you only paid $95 million. How do you react to that suggestion that that is corrupt?
A. I react by saying the value of this plane is $250 million, that is what the -- that is what Brunei began with, by saying that is the value of the plane, and we were able to bargain them down to $95 million, because they were very eager to invest in Saudi Arabia and to invest in the Kingdom Centre that we have over there, which is a high-rise tower that was completed a few years ago, and the ownership of the Brunei became confirmed just a few months ago.
Q. You are avoiding the question deliberately, aren't you?
A. I'm not. Please, you ask and I will reply openly.
Q. The question is: how do you justify saying that an aircraft cost you $135 million, when you know it cost you $95 million?
A. Okay, you have to compare not 95 to 135, but 135 to 250, which is the real value of the plane.
Q. That is not what your letter says, the letter doesn't talk about the real value, the letter is very specific, it says: "The aircraft's price of $135 million represents what the aircraft cost us."
A. Because the counterparty would not really care much about how much I paid for it, they care much about what is the real value of this whole thing, how much it cost.
Q. If that is the case, why did you bother saying how much the aircraft had cost you?
A. That is a tactic used with the Libyans.
Q. Do you mean it is a lie used with the Libyans?
A. It is not a lie. It is a tactic. It is not a lie. You can call it a lie; I call it a tactic.
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Sorry, this aircraft was never offered for less than 135 million. You then say "The aircraft's price of $135 million, represents what the aircraft cost us". But it didn't, it cost you 95.
A. Correct.
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: So when you say it cost 135, that is untrue.
A. If you tell him 95, he is going to say "Why am I paying 95?"
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Of course.
A. He is going to say "I pay 95 only", because they wanted to pay the same price that I bought it for, while the value is $250 million, your Lordship.
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You are quite right, but the value is something that you didn't state. You didn't tell him "You are going to get a bargain, if you pay me 135, because the aircraft is worth 250 million", what you actually do is you tell him a lie, you tell him the aircraft has cost you 135 when it didn't.
A. It Libyans would not have understand what this value mean. They only understand how much you paid for it. They are not sophisticated like UK-based people.
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: If I sold this pen to you and I said, although it looks an ordinary pen, it is actually filled with platinum inside and is worth a million dollars, but I will give it to you as a special price of 750,000", and you pay the 750,000 on the basis of my statement that it is filled with platinum. If you then open it and you find it is full of ink and only worth 50 cents, you would be very upset, wouldn't you?
A. Not if I have done my homework and my due diligence. If I have done my due diligence, I would not be upset.
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Sometimes, when you buy something, you rely upon what people tell you they're selling. In an area where people are honest with each other, you take a man at his word.
A. But, your Lordship, the value of this plane was 250 million, and Prince Jefri paid for that $250 million, and I know exactly the design of it.
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Prince Jefri could probably afford to take that hit, because he wasn't spending his own money. We know all of that. But I come back to this fundamental question: if I tell you something, and you rely on what I say as being the truth of the situation and it turns out that it is not truthful, you would be very upset about it, would you not?
A. But not if I have done my due diligence. You can put any value you want on it. If I have done my homework and my due diligence and I take responsibility for that -- and they have done their homework also, the Libyans, and they said "That's good. That's a price we accept", at 120, eventually, obviously, not 135.
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I think, Your Highness, when you speak to your lawyers after this case, you might be disappointed and you might want to consider the way that you enter into contracts, if that is the way you go, because you cannot, as a seller, say things which are untrue to induce a contract and expect the contract to survive.
A. This is not a normal -- you are dealing with the Libyans, who are really -- you know, it was -- it was not very straightforward and they were deliberately not honouring their commitments. I understand what you are saying, your Lordship. I understand this very well. But to the Libyans, when they come and they renege, and they come and say "We are going to go down from 120 to 70", and when they say "We will cancel everything", you know, they just reneged. And Saleh El Ghoul and Fouad Alaeddin were authorised just to go and to do whatever they can to finalise this deal and, eventually, we got the 50, and they got the plane.
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Just because they behave badly, it doesn't justify you behaving badly, does it? You have your reputation that you want to maintain and you don't go their levels, you don't stoop to them. What you should do is you play honest. What you say to him is "Yes, we paid 95, but the plane was worth 250. Therefore, it is not unreasonable, whatever price I paid, to charge you 135. You are still getting a bargain, because that is $115 million below what it is worth", and then all the cards are on the table and you are playing honest broker. But what you tell him, untruthfully, is that the plane cost you 135, when it actually cost you 40 million less than that and it is untrue.
A. But it is none of his business, your Lordship, to know how much I paid for it.
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Then why did you tell him?
A. Because they wanted the justification for the value of the plane and, if you tell them the value, they don't understand the value, because they say it has been depreciated, it has been used by Prince Jefri and used by the Sultan of Brunei, and they would say "No, 251 back to -- from the 251 to whatever you want to pay for it".
MR FREEDMAN: You have heard the line of questions from his Lordship and you've heard my questions.
A. I do.
Did you do anything wrong when you wrote "The aircraft's price of $135 represents what the aircraft cost us"?
A. In normal circumstances, this would not happen, this does not happen.
Q. Did you do anything wrong? Do you recognise that you didn't tell the truth?
A. In normal circumstances, this shouldn't happen, for sure.
Q. Do you recognise that you didn't tell the truth?
A. You have to see the -- what led to that.
Q. Do you recognise that you didn't tell the truth?
A. We recognised that we were dealing with a rogue state and we had to act in kind.
Q. Did you recognise that you weren't telling the truth?
A. We were not understanding -- we were just strengthening our bargaining position with them right now at that time.
Q. Does the truth then depend on context always?
A. No, we are always truthful, but this is a very unique situation and unique case whereby the Libyans were involved and they are not straight. So Saleh El Ghoul and Fouad Alaeddin were authorised to do whatever they could to finalise it.
Q. And it wasn't truthful to say that extras and modifications had been made to the aircraft since you bought it, because, as you said, there were zero modifications?
A. I told you, not my modifications. We have done zero modifications.
Q. Zero modifications.
A. I'm confirming that to you: not minor; zero modifications were done. The main reason for buying the plane was it needed no modifications whatsoever, so I'm confirming that.
Q. The second sentence was a lie as well?
A. You call it a lie; I call it a tactic used by Saleh El Ghoul and Fouad Alaeddin.
FINALISATION OF THE SALE AGREEMENT
THE WHEELS COME OFF THE TRANSACTION
SNATCH BACK OF AIRBUS
MEETING AT GEORGE V
MEETING WITH COLONEL GADDAFI
SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT PUT IN WRITING
REQUEST FOR FEES
CLARIFICATION OF DEFENCE
UNRELIABLE EVIDENCE
"to the extent that the Court is inclined to pay any regard to the evidence of Mr El-Turk it is submitted that he was a partisan witness who sought to give evidence as to fact and to argue the case in favour to Mrs Sharab".
PRINCE IN DIFFICULTY
"On this matter there is no agreement whatsoever!! We can neither accept nor tolerate these bills that have no basis – just because there are indications that F/FA's efforts have failed with Libyans; this should not be translated into a hit and run situation – this bill is with no basis and is rejected immediately".
"Judge: [Mrs Sharab] might remember things more clearly, perhaps because she has somewhat fewer meetings than you have during the year and therefore you are not in a position to challenge what she says.
"A: I accept that, Your Lordship" (T4/95).
He also accepted that he really had no idea what happened 13 or 10 years down the line [T4/95]. Finally he accepted (T4/135) when I raised a concern about the fact that he was unable to answer questions about what happened without looking at his witness statement. His answer was "Yes. My recollection and telling is not good at all. I am sorry."
CONCLUSION.
BACK STABBING
EXPERT EVIDENCE
Claim No: HC07C03194
IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE
CHANCERY DIVISION
BETWEEN
MRS DAAD SHARAB
Claimant
-and-
HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS PRINCE AL-WALEED BIN TALAL BIN ABDUL-AZIZ AL SAUD
Defendant
draft CLAIMANT'S CHRONOLOGY
"C": The Claimant
"D": The Defendant
"FA": Mr Alaeddin
"AH": Mr Al-Huwaij
Notes:
(1) Dates and events are taken from C's First Witness Statement. Some are disputed.
(2) Where C describes a date as being "on or about" or "around" a certain date, the date specified in the witness statement is the date that is entered below.
(3) Where a date range is identified but no specific date is given, a "?" appears below.
(4) This document is a summary of events and does not supersede the pleadings.
(5) [The underlined comments and struck through deletions are those made on the Defendant's behalf.]
DATE |
EVENT |
WITNESS STATEMENT REF |
TRIAL BUNDLE REF |
March 1988 |
C attended conference in Libya organised by an Arab women's charity committee and she was introduced to Gaddafi. Subsequently, met him and had further discussions with him. |
C w/s (1) [17-18] |
|
From 1988 |
C introduced clients to LAFICO (Libyan Foreign Investment Office). Including Lonrho plc. |
C w/s (1) [19-20] |
|
|
Action against Mr Salfiti in which C obtained judgment. Judgment upheld by CA 12.12.96 |
|
[D1/2/1] |
1995-1998 |
C lived in Saudi Arabia. C introduced to D's business affairs by FA. |
C w/s (1) [27] |
|
1997 |
FA asked C to do feasibility studies for Union Bank for Savings and Investment, then owned by D. |
C w/s (1) [29]
|
|
March/April 1999
|
Letters from D to Gaddafi to interest him in projects before involvement of C. |
C w/s (1) [33-39] |
[D1/3/24] [D1/4/27] |
29.09.99 |
C arranged for a visit of D to Gaddafi which took place on 29.9.99 in Libya near Sert. C did not accompany D because last minute change of plan diverted D from Tripoli (where she was waiting to meet him) to Sert. |
C w/s (1) [33-36] |
|
30.09.99 |
C and D met for the first time in Tripoli, visiting various potential tourism sites. They then flew to airport near Benghazi in plane of prince with FA and visited a potential tourist area.
|
C w/s (1) [37] |
|
From Sept 99 |
About 9/10 meetings of D with Gaddafi concerning projects,
and C |
C w/s (1) [39] |
|
Nov 99 - Feb 01 |
Negotiations of C with LAFICO re hotel development for construction of Four Seasons/Movenpick in Tripoli. |
C w/s (1) [40] |
|
21.11.99 |
Letter FA to AH of LAFICO. |
C w/s (1) [40] |
[D1/7/33] |
26.4.00 |
Transfer of USD13,464,464.00 against 10% contribution in ME Hotels Company. To FA. |
|
[D1/18/66] |
27.2.01 |
Payment of USD 500,000 from D to C |
C w/s (1) [41] |
[D1/26/91] |
15.04.2001 |
Letter from D to Gaddafi referring to a meeting of President Mubarak to Libya and referring to Libya's agreement to contribute to the Touscha project. It is also stated that:
"we have entrusted Mr Brother Fuad Aalaudin with the task of following up this matter with the Libyan Arab Company for Foreign Investments". |
|
[D1/34/111] |
Start 08.01 |
D called C and said that he was in Cannes and wished to sell one of his aircraft and he asked C to come to Cannes to meet him. Wanted her to arrange a meeting with AH re tourism/Toushca. |
C w/s (1)[46] |
|
7.8.01 -8.08.01 |
C went to Cannes and discussed with D seeking to sell one
of his
D denies sending FA specifically to agree a contract with C. D also denies offering or agreeing to pay any specific commission for her potential assistance, but rather that they would work on the same basis as their previous dealings which was that any commission payable would be based on their previous arrangement whereby the extent and value of C's contribution is assessed at the end of the transaction. |
C w/s (1)[47-48]
D w/s [15-18] |
|
8.8.01 - 15.8.01 |
C in London |
C w/s (1)[48] |
|
15.8.01 onwards |
C in Cannes. On 15.8.01, AH met D. FA in Cannes. |
C w/s (1)[49] |
|
22.8.01 |
Tunisian and Egyptian delegations met with D. C in attendance. She has arranged this. |
C w/s (1)[49] |
|
23.08.01 |
Return of C to London |
C w/s (1)[50] |
|
25.08.01 |
FA met with C to discuss proposed sale of aircraft to Libya. Agreement - commission USD 2 million re sale of an aircraft and USD 1 million re securing investment in Project Toushca.
D denies that he had given FA any instructions
in relation to the discussions that FA could have with C |
C w/s (1)[51] (Amended PoC paras 13-15)
D w/s [18-19] (Amended Defence paras 11 - 13) |
|
End Aug 2002 |
Call D to C in London asking her to proceed with
negotiations for |
C w/s (1)[52] |
|
21.01.03 |
C saw Gaddafi who said that he would need to see both aircraft. C persuaded Gaddafi to view the planes. |
C w/s (1)[53] |
|
23.01.03 |
C call to D (in Algeria) that 2 |
C w/s (1)[54] |
|
10.4.03 |
D to Libya with both Boeing and Airbus. D
and
Gaddafi asked for D to send C |
C w/s (1)[55-56] D w/s [23-25] |
|
10.04.03 |
Discussion on the Boeing in Libya between C and D in which C agreed commission additional to that agreed thus far i.e. she should have amounts over USD 110m. Up to USD 110m, it would be USD 2m commission. Toushca remained USD 1m for investment of USD 20 million.
D denies that he agreed to pay C commission equivalent to the amount by which the sale of the Airbus exceeded US$10m and instead states that any commission payable would be based on their previous arrangement whereby the extent and value of C's contribution is assessed at the end of the transaction.
C remained in Libya for a week to arrange information and meetings for FA. |
C w/s (1)[58-59] (Amended PoC paras 19-20)
D w/s [25] (Amended Defence para 17)
|
|
April - June 2003 |
Negotiations - Libyans wanted to pay USD 90 million and C wanted USD 120 million. |
C w/s (1)[62] |
|
Jan 03-July 03 |
6 visits by C to Libya to negotiate price. 5 of trips, she paid her own way. 3 times FA there for about 3-4 days. She was there for about 2 weeks on each occasion. |
C w/s (1)[68] |
|
17/18.05.03 |
Letter of D to Gaddafi stating that aircraft never offered for a price of less than USD 135 million, this being what it cost him including modifications.
C and FA fly to Libya. Letter hand-delivered by C. |
C w/s (1)[69-70]
|
[D1/45/148] |
18.6.03 |
Agreement in principle of Gaddafi to pay USD 120 million for aircraft and USD 20 million for Toushca. |
C w/s (1)[63] |
|
15.07.03 |
FA and C called D from Corinthia Bab Africa Hotel. Discussion whereby D confirms to C C's commission.
D denies confirming level of commission. |
C w/s (1)[64]
D w/s [29] |
|
17.07.03 (drafted) and 19.07.03 (made) |
2 agreements made: a. Agreement 1 - KADCO and LAFICO purchase of aircraft for USD 70 million;
2 agreements because Gaddafi did not want it to be known how much he was paying for aircraft i.e. more than other Middle Eastern leaders |
C w/s (1)[65-67] |
|
Mid-August 2003 |
After first payment of USD 70 million made, C sought first half of commission. D refused, and said only when all received. Discussion between C and D about payment of commission; C asks that money be paid into one of her accounts held in London. C informed by D that she should send him the details of the account once he had received the remainder of the purchase price.
D denies the content of the
conversation |
C w/s (1)[72] (Amended PoC para 30)
D w/s [31] (Amended Defence para 24) |
|
August 2003 - December 2003 |
Attempts to obtain payment of outstanding monies from Libyans in correspondence of D to Gaddafi passed on personally by C. D left without Airbus and without the full purchase price. |
C w/s (1)[73] |
|
22.8.03 |
Letter D to Gaddafi re: how this affects the reputation of Libya especially among foreign lending banks. Letter delivered personally by C. |
C w/s (1)[73] |
[D1/50/171] |
28.8.03 |
Letter FA to Gaddafi. Letter delivered personally by C. |
C w/s (1)[73] |
[D1/51/174] |
9.09.03 |
Letter D to Gaddafi: summary of events since Jan 2003; banks informed. Letter delivered personally by C. |
C w/s (1)[73] |
[D1/54/184] |
8.10.03 |
Letter FA to Gaddafi. Refers to meeting which he had on 11.9.03 with Gaddafi. Ready to come to Tripoli for a meeting on 11.10.03. Letter delivered personally by C. |
C w/s (1)[73] |
[D1/55/186] |
19.10.03 |
Letter from C to Gaddafi. C stated that she had been contacted by FA who had in turn spoken with D. D wants Gaddafi to intervene. |
C w/s (1)[73] |
[D1/56/192] |
December 03 |
Request by D to C to visit Libya again re outstanding monies |
C w/s (1) [75] |
|
13.12.03 |
Letter D to Gaddafi. D sent FA and C to explain the matter and deliver a personal letter, but nothing occurred. |
C w/s (1)[76] |
[D1/59/204] |
18.12.03 |
C went to Libya, met Gaddafi on 19.12.03 and stayed for a month and delivered letter of 13.12.03 |
C w/s (1) [76] |
|
15.2.04 |
FA went to Libya and met with Sabri Shadi of Afriqiyah
Airways requesting payment. At same time, C in meeting with Gaddafi. Sabri Shadi informs FA that no further payment of the outstanding US$50m would be forthcoming. D also becomes aware at this point of attempts to extract additional payments from D by Mr Al-Dam, the cousin of Gaddafi, in order to smooth the transaction. |
C w/s (1)[77]
D w/s [34-36] |
|
Early March 2004 |
Airbus moved to Germany for maintenance |
C w/s (1) [78 D w/s [37]
C w/s (1) [80] |
|
10.3.04 |
C wrote to Gaddafi asking him to pay the balance. C states in the same letter that Libyans brought in experts who had valued the Airbus at US$120m. |
C w/s (1) [81] |
[D1/63/ |
March 2004 |
Libyan decision not to proceed with Toushca project. |
C w/s (1) [83-84] |
|
7.4.04 |
D to Gaddafi - aircraft will be kept in Riyadh. Letter delivered personally by C. |
C w/s (1) [82] |
[D1/65/240] |
13.04.04 |
C flew to Libya to encourage payment of remaining money.
Gaddafi very upset about plane being taken, |
C w/s (1) [86-87] |
|
2.5.04 |
D sent a letter to Gaddafi offering to cancel the two agreements and to take the USD 70 million as compensation. Rejected. |
C w/s (1) [89] |
[D2/68/246] |
10.5.04 |
Death of brother of C in Libya |
C w/s (1) [91] |
|
19.5.04 |
Invoice from Ernst & Young to D in the sum of US$465,000 in respect of FA's involvement in the Airbus sale. |
D w/s [39] |
[D2/72/262-263] |
27.6.04 |
Letter from LAFICO to D requiring the aircraft |
C w/s (1) [95] |
[D2/75/268] |
30.6.04 |
Draft letter sent by D to C to consider sending |
C w/s (1) [95] |
[D2/76/270] |
5.7.04 |
Letter from LAFICO to D requiring the aircraft or the purchase moneys |
C w/s (1) [95] |
[D2/79/276] |
28.8.05 |
D phoned to ask C to come to George V in Paris |
C w/s (1)[96] |
|
30.8.05 |
Meeting at George V of C and D |
C w/s (1)[96- 98] |
|
3.9.05 |
C travels to Paris and meets D to fly on to Libya. C, D and FA meet MG. Discussion between D and Gaddafi, and C and Gaddafi. Private discussion between D and Gaddafi takes place and agreement is reached with regards to the Airbus. |
C w/s (1)[100-104]
D w/s [44] |
|
4.9.05 |
C and FA meet Libyan officials. After unsuccessful initial discussions, C and Mr Hijazi telephone MG. Settlement Agreement then reached.
C returns to London. D phones C expressing gratitude. D confirms to C that he would pay the commission of USD 10m.
D denies |
C w/s (1)[108]
C w/s (1)[113] (PoC para 61)
D w/s [46] (Amended Defence para 41) |
|
10.9.05 |
D signs Settlement Agreement |
C w/s (1)[114] |
[D2/115/381] (unsigned) |
11.9.05 |
D telephones C asking her to ensure Libyans sign the Settlement Agreement asap. D again confirms payment of USD 10m.
D denies content of this conversation. |
C w/s (1)[115] (Amended PoC para 64)
D w/s [46] (Amended Defence para 44) |
|
12.9.05 |
Signed Settlement Agreement delivered to C in London. C telephones D and asks for confirmation that she will be paid US$10m commission. D confirms.
D denies content of conversation. |
C w/s (1)[117] (Amended PoC para 67)
D w/s [46] (Answer 25 of Further Information) |
|
17.9.05 |
D faxes to C the spare parts list for the Airbus. C then flies to Libya with Prince's signed Settlement Agreement. |
C w/s (1)[118] |
[D2/111/356] |
18.9.05 |
C meets with LAFICO, who say that Letter of Credit will be opened only if D gives written confirmation that he will transfer the plane and its title to them. |
C w/s (1)[119] |
|
19.9.05 |
D telephones C to say that he needs to contact Airbus re transfer of title |
C w/s (1)[120] |
|
21.9.05 |
Libyans sign Settlement Agreement and spare parts list |
C w/s (1)[121] |
|
25.9.05 |
Correspondence whereby C liaises with D and LAFICO |
C w/s (1)[122] |
[D2/116/387] |
27.9.05 |
Correspondence whereby C liaises with D and LAFICO |
C w/s (1)[122] |
[D2/117/391] |
9.10.05 |
Correspondence whereby C liaises with D and LAFICO |
C w/s (1)[122] |
[D2/118/393] |
17.10.05 |
Correspondence whereby C liaises with D and LAFICO |
C w/s (1)[122] |
[D2/119/396] |
27.10.05 |
Correspondence whereby C liaises with D and LAFICO |
C w/s (1)[122] |
[D2/121/404] |
6.11.05 |
Correspondence whereby C liaises with D and LAFICO |
C w/s (1)[122] |
[D2/122/407] |
27.4.06 |
Letter of Credit opened |
C w/s (1)[123] |
[D2/131/425] |
28.6.06 |
Letter to D from C. Confirms C's involvement |
C w/s (1)[123] |
[D2/134/433] |
25.1.06 |
Letters trying to complete the deal |
C w/s (1)[125] |
[D2/124/411] |
29.1.06 |
Letters trying to complete the deal |
C w/s (1)[125] |
[D2/125/412] |
1.3.06 |
Letters trying to complete the deal |
C w/s (1)[125] |
[D2/128/415] |
20.4.06 |
Letter from C to D, trying to conclude the deal. C states that she is officially entrusted by the highest Libyan authorities and that she will stand by the Libyan side. |
C w/s (1)[126] D w/s [48]
|
[D2/130/420-421] |
?.3.06 |
D obtains a copy of Settlement Agreement from Libyans without C's knowledge. D arranges to receive payment of US$50m. |
C w/s (1)[128] |
|
31.8.06 |
Letter of Credit negotiated. D transfers the Airbus to Libya. |
C w/s (1)[129] |
|
31.8.06 |
Letter of Credit: release |
C w/s (1)[129] |
[D2/140/443] |
19.9.06 |
Fax from C to D requesting payment |
C w/s (1)[131] |
[D2/143/448] |
2.10.06 |
Fax from C to D requesting payment |
C w/s (1)[131] |
[D2/144/451] |
12.12.06 |
Fax from C to D requesting payment |
C w/s (1)[131] |
[D2/147/456] |
17.10.06 |
Letter before action sent to D |
C w/s (1)[132] |
[D2/145/454] |
19.10.06 |
Response from Hogan & Hartson denying any liability |
C w/s (1)[132] |
[D2/146/455] |
27.11.07 |
Claim Form issued |
|
[A/1/1] |
|
|
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IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE |
Claim No.HC07C03194 |
|
CHANCERY DIVISION |
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BEFORE |
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BETWEEN: |
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MRS DAAD SHARAB |
Claimant |
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- and - |
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his royal highness PRINCE aLwaleed bin talal bin abdUlaziz alsaud
Defendant
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||
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- APPENDIX B TO C'S CLOSING SUBMISSIONS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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References to Transcripts in Closing Submission
· Para 26 - [T2 / 123/8]
8 President of Libya. I know how his brain working.
Page 123
· Para 34 - T2/40/23 to T2/41/6
23 Fouad, I said they said it was $20 million. Then Fouad
24 went to the Prince to his suite and came back down and
25 he said, "We'll pay you half a million. Get this land."
Page 40
1 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Who said that, the Prince?
2 A. Fouad.
3 MR PYMONT: So Mr Alaeddin didn't agree it specifically --
4 sorry, he didn't agree it in his discretion. He agreed
5 it having gone to see the Prince to take instructions
6 first as to whether it was agreed.
Page 41
· Para 37 - T4/97/19 - T4/99/9
19 Q. "I did not discuss the claimant's remuneration for her
20 role with her directly, but it was clear to the claimant
21 that she would be rewarded in the event that the project
22 was successfully established."
23 What you were saying before lunchtime was in fact
24 you did discuss it directly with her.
25 What I suggest to you is that it was correct in your
Page 97
1 statement to this extent: the person who discussed
2 remuneration was Mr Alaeddin and not you. Could that be
3 correct?
4 A. I don't recall.
5 Q. But it is -- you say you don't recall. You then go on
6 to say:
7 "But it was clear to the claimant that she would be
8 rewarded in the event that the project was successfully
9 established."
10 It is a bit difficult, isn't it, for you to say that
11 if you were not the person having direct discussions
12 with her?
13 A. She knew that if this project is done, I will reward her
14 something to my discretion.
15 Q. If the discussions were not direct between you and her,
16 you cannot say that for sure, can you?
17 A. So what are you implying?
18 Q. I suggest to you that such discussions that did take
19 place took place through your representative
20 Mr Alaeddin?
21 A. Fouad was never authorised to do such things.
22 Q. If it be the case that your witness statement is correct
23 and that you did not discuss remuneration with her
24 directly, who do you say did discuss remuneration with
25 her?
Page 98
1 A. I say:
2 "I did not discuss the claimant's remuneration for
3 the role with her directly, but it was clear to the
4 claimant that she would be rewarded in the event that
5 the project was successfully established."
6 I did not say Fouad Alaeddin. I mean, when I talk
7 to her I tell her, if these things do happen, you will
8 be rewarded, so the implication for her that something
9 will happen if the deal is consummated.
Page 99
· Para 37 - T4/101/10 to T4/102/25
10 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: When you say she accepted it, are
11 you saying she accepted that in direct conversation with
12 you, are you saying that in direct conversation with
13 you, face-to-face, just as I'm talking to you now, you
14 said to her, "You realise that I will do it on my normal
15 basis, that I'm going to ask you to do this work and
16 I will decide how much you are going to get after the
17 work has been done", are you saying that you said that
18 to her and she agreed it?
19 A. The statement is:
20 "I did not discuss the claimant's remuneration with
21 her directly."
22 But the implication to her is that she knew
23 something is going have to happen.
24 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I don't see where the implication
25 is from your conversation when you say what you didn't
Page 101
1 discuss, as opposed to what you are now trying to tell
2 me you did discuss.
3 A. Also, if there was something formal, I would have had
4 a contract signed. I would have negotiated a formal
5 contract with her and say, that is it, that is the law
6 of the land, we sign it, seal it, stamp it, and if we
7 get it, you will be rewarded, based on what I do
8 usually. But sometimes, when it is my discretion,
9 I say, "I will pay nothing. When the deal takes place,
10 I will pay you or I don't pay."
11 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Did you say this to her?
12 A. I don't recall exactly.
13 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: In your witness statement you say
14 you didn't have any conversation with her.
15 A. Yes, but the implication to her is that, that she will
16 be rewarded, and she understood this.
17 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Where does she get the implication
18 from if she didn't discuss it with you?
19 A. She knows how I operate. I told her there are two ways,
20 either you have a contract, and you sign it, seal it and
21 stamp it and it becomes the law, or -- she knows how
22 I operate.
23 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: How does she know, she has never
24 dealt with you before?
25 A. No, but by that time she began interacting with me.
Page 102
· Para 40 - T4/103/5 to T4/106/9.
5 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: How does she know that you either
6 sign a contract or it becomes your discretion, how does
7 she know that? You don't tell her, because you tell us
8 that you didn't discuss it.
9 A. Yes.
10 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: How does she know it?
11 A. She knows how I operate.
12 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: How does she know that?
13 A. Because we did talk to her and interact with her a lot
14 after the first meeting with Gaddafi.
15 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: If I had a meeting with you about
16 selling my pen, would I know that you did it that way?
17 The answer is I wouldn't unless you told me or somebody
18 else told me on your behalf. You have eliminated
19 Mr Alaeddin, you said certainly not. I'm trying to
20 understand how she would know that you dealt with her
21 either signing a contract, or, if no contract, your
22 discretion. I need to know how you claim she knows it.
23 A. Well, I can only tell you that the implication to her is
24 that, you know, she never asked, for example, for me to
25 sign a contract, she never asked that, because she knows
Page 103
1 I never like to sign a contract in such matters, because
2 it is not really a very formal matter and this thing
3 with Gaddafi was very fluid and still at the early
4 stages and we know how he operates, so this was not
5 a very formal contract, at all, with her, it was really
6 very much kept to my discretion and she, maybe she
7 doesn't get it explicitly from me, but she got the
8 impression that, you know, on these things that is how
9 I operate, either there is a contract and I abide by it,
10 or it is kept to my discretion and I fulfil whatever
11 I believe is right at that time.
12 MR FREEDMAN: None of that is in paragraph 6, is it?
13 A. No.
14 Q. It is not, is it?
15 A. It is not, no.
16 Q. Why not?
17 A. For what, please can you explain?
18 Q. You have just given a long answer to his Lordship's
19 question. I said:
20 "None of that is in paragraph 6?"
21 You agree. I'm asking you why isn't it in
22 paragraph 6?
23 A. Maybe it was missed by my lawyers.
24 Q. Blame the lawyers?
25 A. No, I'm not blaming but maybe it was missed.
Page 104
1 Q. This was a statement that was very carefully prepared,
2 wasn't it?
3 A. Possibly.
4 Q. You know it was. You signed it at page 53.
5 A. I saw it.
6 Q. Yes?
7 A. Yes, I saw it.
8 Q. And you read it before you signed it, didn't you?
9 A. Mm-hmm.
10 Q. Yes?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And you knew how important it was, because you knew that
13 this would be the first part of your evidence in this
14 trial, didn't you?
15 A. Yes, but I do say:
16 "It was clear to the claimant."
17 Clear means by implication.
18 Q. So I'm asking you, in the course of this very careful
19 preparation of this witness statement, why was none of
20 that answer that you gave to his Lordship included in
21 paragraph 6 of your witness statement?
22 A. Can you elaborate, please, on that?
23 Q. I will not elaborate, I will just ask the question
24 again.
25 A. Yes, sir, please.
Page 105
1 Q. Why in the course of this very carefully prepared
2 statement was none of the answer that you just gave to
3 the court included in paragraph 6 of your witness
4 statement?
5 A. I think it -- I do say here very clearly "it was clear
6 to the claimant". I didn't say I talked to her,
7 I didn't talk to her, it is clear, the implication is
8 clear. I say "it is clear to the claimant", so by
9 implication she should get to know that.
Page 106
· Para 44 - T4 / 2 / 7 - 12.
7 A. Yes, there is one correction, I think on page 42 -- is
8 that page 42? It is related to the fact that I said
9 here that there was an agreement to acquire the new
10 large aircraft. Well, it was not an agreement, it was
11 actually a discussion that begun. The arrangements
12 begun, not an agreement. That is the only correction.
Page 2
· Para 50 - T4/117/12 to T4/128/2
12 Q. Without your statement, do you recall that that is
13 correct, first of all, that you said that you would pay
14 a commission?
15 A. I don't recall, I have to see my statement.
16 Q. We will come on to the statement in a moment. You don't
17 recall whether you said that you would pay a commission?
18 A. I know that -- I have to look at the statement, much
19 better.
20 Q. We will come on to the statement in a moment. I'm just
21 interested what you recall --
22 A. I don't recall it right now.
23 Q. -- without reference to the statement.
24 A. But I know that the implication was that something,
25 based on my discretion, would be given to her.
Page 117
1 Q. So you don't recall whether you said that you would pay
2 a commission. Do you recall that there was no
3 discussion about the amount of a commission?
4 A. The amount for sure, never discussed the amount, because
5 this was kept to my discretion completely.
6 Q. You said that the implication was something would be
7 based on your discretion. Now, when we use the term
8 "implication", we mean that something was not expressed,
9 it was implied. Is that what you are saying?
10 A. I think that the impression she got from me is that if
11 this deal happens, you know, something may be given to
12 her. I don't deny that, yes.
13 Q. But your evidence to the court is that the implication
14 was that something, based on your discretion, would be
15 given to her. That is your evidence to the court, isn't
16 it? Are you agreeing with me?
17 A. That what is it says, yes. I mean, I was giving the
18 impression that if this thing materialises, then it is
19 me who decides how much you will get.
20 Q. There is a world of difference between an implication
21 and something being said, isn't there?
22 A. Sure.
23 Q. And you did not say to her that whether or not she would
24 be paid would depend upon your discretion?
25 A. If it was otherwise, I would have had a contract with
Page 118
1 her whereby it becomes binding. The fact that there was
2 no contract on such an amount that she claims, then for
3 sure it has to be kept to my discretion.
4 Q. So you agree with me that what you are saying is that it
5 was an implication, but it wasn't said expressly, that
6 it all depended on your discretion?
7 A. It was all based on my discretion, because if her claim
8 for the amount she was seeking was correct, for sure
9 this would have had a contract from my side.
10 Q. That is your case about the implication, that it was
11 based on your discretion. I'm only putting to you that
12 it was an implication, it wasn't expressed, and I think
13 we agree about that, don't we; correct?
14 A. On what?
15 Q. That you are saying it is just an implication, it wasn't
16 expressed?
17 A. Well, I think we have to go back to what the record
18 says.
19 Q. We will come to the record in a moment, but at the
20 moment you agree with me, don't you, that what you are
21 saying is that it was based on an implication that it
22 was the discretion, not that it was expressed?
23 A. No, I think she knew that something will be coming to
24 her if this deal is finalised, she knew that, but she
25 also knew that is based on my discretion completely.
Page 119
1 Q. Because of the implication?
2 A. You are trying to insert implication. Why are you
3 trying to insert that word into my mouth?
4 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Because that word came from you
5 first, that is why. If your case is that she knew that
6 she would obtain a fee on this project at your
7 discretion, how does she know it?
8 A. I think there was discussion between us.
9 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You think there was discussion
10 between you?
11 A. I'm not sure, but I think there was --
12 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Be very careful Your Highness,
13 because so far you have said consistently that there was
14 no discussion between you on this.
15 A. No, only on the plane.
16 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: No, your case throughout has been
17 that you never discussed it, and in your witness
18 statement that we have been looking at and this, in your
19 answer to Mr Freedman, you have been very careful to say
20 that she would know about it by implication.
21 A. Yes, but --
22 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I want to know, because what you
23 are not saying is that it was expressly agreed between
24 you and her?
25 A. Definitely not expressly. She was told, if anything was
Page 120
1 going to have to happen, it is going to be my discretion
2 to give her any amount and certain time.
3 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I have already asked you this line
4 in relation to the hotel.
5 How does she know by implication that it is only
6 a matter of your discretion?
7 A. Because she knows how I operate, because I, you know --
8 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: How does she know?
9 A. Because we talked a lot, we talked a lot, your Lordship,
10 about how I conduct my business in Saudi Arabia and the
11 world, and she knows usually I have contracts signed
12 whereby it is binding on both parties. The fact that no
13 binding contract was signed between me and her by
14 implication goes to my discretion.
15 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: So are you now saying there was
16 a detailed discussion between you and her on the yacht
17 about how you normally did business; is that what you
18 are telling us?
19 A. Not detailed. I mean, when she comes casually to have
20 lunch with me, with Fouad Alaeddin, she asked, "How do
21 you work, how do you operate?" We were good friends and
22 we talked casually about how I operate, how I function.
23 You know, we are available in 140 countries in the
24 world. So she got an impression about how I operate and
25 how I function, through me or through Fouad, so it
Page 121
1 was -- so we were good friends and she, I believe at
2 that time she had lunch with me on the boat also. So
3 she knows, she began knowing me and how I operate, and
4 when I say by implication, when there is a contract for
5 millions of dollars, as she is claiming, for sure this
6 has to be in a signed contract, it cannot be just an
7 assumption from her that I committed X million dollars.
8 For me to commit such an amount, I have to make this in
9 writing, I can't just have it verbally like this.
10 MR FREEDMAN: A moment ago you said that you don't remember
11 any discussion in relation to commission on that yacht?
12 A. I'm telling you, when you call her and tell her, "Please
13 see what you can do with Gaddafi", for sure she is not
14 going to do it for free. That is what I mean by
15 implication for me is that something may happen in the
16 future for sure, but remember we were still at a very
17 early stage at that time.
18 Q. When I put to you that you had said that you would pay
19 a commission, you said that you did not recall any
20 discussion about the payment of a commission on the
21 yacht?
22 A. I still say, nothing explicit. I didn't tell her, for
23 example, "If you sell it for this, you get that." This
24 never happened for sure, definitely, because at that
25 time there was no discussion about which plane, let
Page 122
1 alone the price for each plane, because you have two
2 different distinct planes.
3 Q. I wasn't putting that to you, I was putting to you that
4 you said you would pay a commission but there was no
5 discussion about the amount of the commission, and your
6 evidence to his Lordship was that you do not recall any
7 discussion about commission at all?
8 A. Yes, I don't.
9 Q. And you are relying on some implication that it was
10 somehow implied that it depended on your discretion.
11 What you wanted me to do was you wanted me to look
12 through your witness statement with you, and we will go
13 to your witness statement now. It is page 44. It is
14 bundle B1, the small bundle, tab 3, page 44.
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. We will go through paragraph 15 together:
17 "At my request the claimant came to meet me on board
18 my yacht in Cannes, where I regularly conduct business
19 meetings. The meeting took place on or around
20 7 August 2001. During our meeting we discussed my plans
21 to sell one of my aircraft and how the claimant might be
22 able to assist in proposing a sale to Colonel Gaddafi.
23 We also discussed whether the claimant might be able to
24 assist in raising investment from the Libyan Foreign
25 Investment Office (LAFICO) for Project Touscha. I did
Page 123
1 not offer or agree to pay the claimant any specific
2 commission for her potential assistance with either of
3 these projects. From our previous dealings the claimant
4 was aware that my practice in matters such as this was
5 not to agree an introducer's commission at the outset
6 but to assess the appropriate level of compensation at
7 the end of the transaction on the basis of the
8 individual's contribution to the particular project.
9 This was the basis upon which she had assisted me on the
10 projects referred to above, where no specific payment
11 terms were agreed in advance. I told the claimant that
12 if a sale was achieved, any payment to her would be made
13 at my discretion, based on my assessment of her
14 contribution to each project. The claimant said she was
15 happy to proceed on this basis."
16 Now, that paragraph 15 is, I suggest to you,
17 completely different from what you have just been
18 telling the court.
19 First of all, you say there that there was
20 a discussion of the payment that she might receive in
21 respect of this project, whereas in your evidence to the
22 court you had no recollection of that having occurred.
23 Which is correct?
24 A. I say:
25 "I did not offer or agree to pay the claimant any
Page 124
1 specific commission for the potential assistance."
2 By implication, she knew something would happen to
3 her, something would be given to her. It is consistent.
4 Q. Which is correct: is it correct what you told the court,
5 that you have no recollection of any discussion about
6 payment to her, or is it correct that there was
7 a discussion about payment to her in the terms set out
8 in paragraph 15 of your witness statement?
9 A. 15 stands.
10 Q. So why did you then say to the court that you had no
11 recollection of any discussion about commission?
12 A. Because when I read it now I recall what happened.
13 Q. Why was it when we were considering the matter without
14 referring to paragraph 15, that you did not recall that
15 there was a discussion about commission?
16 A. I mean, this is very clear. It says:
17 "I did not offer to agree to pay the claimant any
18 specific commission for the potential assistance for
19 involvement in the project."
20 It is very clear.
21 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Mr Freedman's point is that a few
22 minutes ago you said you had no recollection of there
23 being any discussion. That was before you read the
24 paragraph. Your evidence without seeing any documents
25 is "I can't remember". Then you look at a document and
Page 125
1 you say, "I can now remember, it was as per
2 paragraph 15".
3 How do I address that when you only appear to
4 remember what was said because it has been written down?
5 A. Because, your Lordship --
6 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It was written down, of course,
7 when was it, seven years after the event, wasn't it?
8 MR FREEDMAN: Nine years after the event.
9 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: A few minutes ago you couldn't
10 remember without being reminded. It is a very important
11 point. It is possibly the most crucial conversation in
12 the whole piece of litigation.
13 A. Yes, and I stand by what the statement says here.
14 Before I didn't recall, but it is very clear when I met
15 her, no specific commission was proposed to her at all,
16 however, the implication to her is that if this thing is
17 consummated and finalised, yes, she may be getting
18 something. That is the implication, it is very clear
19 for her, and I don't deny that at all.
20 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Paragraph 15 has nothing to do with
21 implication. The last sentence of paragraph 15 you say:
22 "There was an express discussion that she was made
23 aware it would be at my discretion."
24 A. "If a sale was achieved, any payment for her would be
25 made at my discretion, based on an assessment of her
Page 126
1 contribution to each project."
2 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You are saying there was an express
3 conversation to that effect, whereas earlier you said it
4 was maybe implication, but you cannot recall. When we
5 come to assess evidence, we like to know whether the
6 witness has a true remembrance of what is said as
7 opposed to remembrance that can only be prompted by
8 looking at a document.
9 As I see your evidence on this, you can correct me
10 if I am wrong, you appear to have no memory of this
11 conversation beyond being reminded of it in writing; is
12 that correct?
13 A. Very correct, your Lordship, yes. But definitely after
14 looking at this right now, it is correct and stands,
15 this thing was kept to my discretion. I am very sorry
16 about my memory.
17 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Never apologise for memory. I'm
18 here to find out and the events are many, many years
19 ago.
20 A. Thank you, thank you, your Lordship.
21 MR FREEDMAN: So really without your script, you are
22 nothing?
23 A. Sorry?
24 Q. Without your script, you are nothing?
25 A. No, I'm something, but you remember that this plane is
Page 127
1 a drop in the sea of what I do every day, it is not
2 something I do full-time.
Page 128
· Para 51 - (T4) Line 22 onwards of page 120 to page 121, line 2
22 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I want to know, because what you
23 are not saying is that it was expressly agreed between
24 you and her?
25 A. Definitely not expressly. She was told, if anything was
Page 120
1 going to have to happen, it is going to be my discretion
2 to give her any amount and certain time.
Page 121
· Para 56 - See T4/135/2-3
2 A. Yes. My recollection, I'm telling you, is not good at
3 all. I'm sorry.
Page 135
· Para 61 (3) - T4 / 147 to T4 / 149
1 both planes could go to Libya. Period. Nothing else.
2 Q. I suggest to you that you are making up this evidence
3 about waiting on Mrs Sharab for when the planes can go
4 to Libya, and the reason why I suggest that is by
5 reference to your own witness statement. Let's go
6 through it together. First of all paragraph 17:
7 "I asked Mr Alaeddin to discuss further with the
8 claimant how she might approach the possible sale of the
9 aircraft [the possible sale] and the possible investment
10 by Libya in Project Touscha, and how the claimant might
11 assist each project."
12 Then you refer at paragraph 18 to your understanding
13 about Mr Alaeddin going to London, but you weren't aware
14 of that meeting. You then claim that you had not given
15 Mr Alaeddin instructions in relation to the meeting and
16 didn't instruct him or authorise him about the
17 commissions.
18 Then you say:
19 "In the circumstances of a transaction
20 [paragraph 20] that was not even due to commence for
21 another year and in the absence of any instructions to
22 do so I would be surprised if Mr Alaeddin discussed any
23 specific commissions with the claimant."
24 Then you say that it is no doubt the case that the
25 claimant and Mr Alaeddin for that matter would have
Page 147
1 understood the circumstances in which there would be
2 a commission.
3 At paragraph 22 you say:
4 "By August 2002 I was ready to proceed with the sale
5 of one of my aircraft and called the claimant to ask her
6 to proceed."
7 So what I'm suggesting to you is that you have just
8 made up this evidence that you were looking to the
9 claimant as to when you could proceed with the sale. In
10 fact, as per your witness statement, it depended upon
11 you as to when you wished to proceed with any possible
12 sale?
13 A. I was already a seller. I was just trying to find
14 a buyer, if he was willing to buy or not.
15 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is not an answer to the
16 question. Mr Freedman, in the gentlest possible way, is
17 putting to you that the answer that you gave, that you
18 are waiting to hear when you could take the planes to
19 Colonel Gaddafi is a lie, that you have just made up.
20 That is what you are saying, isn't it?
21 MR FREEDMAN: It is.
22 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: He is saying that because it is not
23 in your witness statement and because it is inconsistent
24 with your witness statement.
25 A. But, your Lordship, when the meeting took place in
Page 148
1 Cannes we planted the seed of how we can send both
2 planes to Gaddafi, because at that time there was
3 discussion about which plane. I said both planes could
4 go there because I had two planes and one of them could
5 be sold. We were waiting one thing only, when the
6 planes can go to Libya, the planes, so really we can
7 proceed with phase two and phase three.
8 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I understand that, but
9 Mr Freedman's next question, if I don't put it, is that
10 you have just told the lie again for the second time.
11 He says the idea that you were waiting for the call is
12 a lie that you have just made up, and I would like to
13 know what your answer to that is?
14 A. I say to your Lordship that I don't lie. This is the
15 truth. We were waiting for an appointment from Gaddafi
16 to take the planes there to see which one he wanted to
17 take. I don't lie at all under oath, and even not under
18 oath, your Lordship.
19 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: If you say you don't lie why can
20 you not exclude the possibility that, talking about
21 events ten years ago, you have a fuzzy memory about it?
22 A. About which memory exactly?
23 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: About the whole thing. This is
24 almost 10 years to the day.
25 A. I know one thing. The implication is that Fouad was
Page 149
· Para 61 (3) - T4 / 144 / 3 to T4 / 145 / 14
3 A. Because there was one subject matter only: When the
4 planes can go to Libya. That is the only thing we were
5 waiting for. There is nothing else. Nothing else to
6 talk about.
7 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That wouldn't come out of that
8 discussion. How can you have a discussion with
9 Mrs Sharab about when the planes can go to Libya? That
10 is not under her control, is it?
11 A. No, we called her to talk to Colonel Gaddafi, to set the
12 time, a day or a month, or whatever, to have the plane
13 go to Libya, and that is what I was waiting on Fouad for
14 this thing to happen.
15 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: She left the meeting in August at
16 Cannes with Mr Alaeddin to go and contact her, and you
17 have just agreed that after that she would then wait for
18 you to contact her whether to proceed.
19 A. No.
20 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is what you said clearly.
21 That was your answer two minutes ago.
22 A. No, we were waiting for her to tell us when the plane
23 can go, your Lordship, to Libya.
24 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is not what you said.
25 A. That is what I meant for sure. We were waiting for her
Page 144
1 to tell us when the plane can go to Libya.
2 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is the exact opposite to what
3 you have said.
4 A. That is very strange because --
5 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Your first answer was she was
6 waiting for you to contact her; and your second answer
7 is you were waiting for her to contact you. Which was
8 it?
9 A. Neither, your Lordship. We were waiting for her to have
10 Gaddafi to set the times for both planes to go to Libya.
11 We were waiting for her to tell us when the planes can
12 go to Libya, because if he didn't see both planes there
13 would be no deal whatsoever. I had to have the planes
14 go to Libya. Sorry your Lordship on that.
Page 145
· Para 61 (3) - T4 / 149 lines 14-18
14 A. I say to your Lordship that I don't lie. This is the
15 truth. We were waiting for an appointment from Gaddafi
16 to take the planes there to see which one he wanted to
17 take. I don't lie at all under oath, and even not under
18 oath, your Lordship.
Page 149
· Para 63 - T5 / 20 / 4-25
4 A. Our position was -- to Saleh El Ghoul and Fouad Alaeddin
5 is to go to the Libyans, after their efforts failed, to
6 do whatever it takes to finalise this deal and clearly
7 I will confirm that what your Lordship said is correct
8 that they maybe twisted some of the truth with them, to
9 get this thing finalised with them because they reneged
10 and they tried to keep the plane and don't pay the rest
11 of the amount.
12 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I'm not criticising what you did,
13 I just want to know whether you did it knowingly and it
14 appears to me that you must have known --
15 A. Yes.
16 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: -- that some of the calculations in
17 this letter were untrue, but you allowed it to be sent
18 because that was the only way in which you could put
19 pressure on Gaddafi to deal.
20 A. Let me confirm to you that Saleh El Ghoul and
21 Fouad Alaeddin were authorised to do whatever it takes
22 to finish it, and I can confirm that some of these
23 things I was aware of, that they said that they are
24 going to use tactics with them, similar tactics they
25 used with us.
Page 20
· Para 64 - T5 / 35 / 11 - T5 / 36 / 4
1 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I think, Your Highness, when you
12 speak to your lawyers after this case, you might be
13 disappointed and you might want to consider the way that
14 you enter into contracts, if that is the way you go,
15 because you cannot, as a seller, say things which are
16 untrue to induce a contract and expect the contract to
17 survive.
18 A. This is not a normal -- you are dealing with the
19 Libyans, who are really -- you know, it was -- it was
20 not very straightforward and they were deliberately not
21 honouring their commitments. I understand what you are
22 saying, your Lordship. I understand this very well.
23 But to the Libyans, when they come and they renege, and
24 they come and say "We are going to go down from 120 to
25 70", and when they say "We will cancel everything", you
Page 35
1 know, they just reneged. And Saleh El Ghoul and
2 Fouad Alaeddin were authorised just to go and to do
3 whatever they can to finalise this deal and, eventually,
4 we got the 50, and they got the plane.
Page 36
· Para 73 (a) - T5/59/8 to T5/60/12
8 Q. What did you say about the price?
9 A. We were trying to get the maximum amount that we can get
10 from him.
11 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It would be a short conversation
12 then, wouldn't it?
13 A. Sorry?
14 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It would be a very short
15 conversation, the conversation on that basis is "Get the
16 best price".
17 A. Obviously, your Lordship, we have to see -- we have to
18 discuss -- I mean, we just came back from Gaddafi, the
19 meeting was positive, he decided he wanted to buy one of
20 the planes. The key question right now is the price,
21 the contract, the time of delivery. All these matters
22 were very crucial right now to decide on the next step.
23 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: What did you discuss about the
24 price then? You don't tell me that, do you? Did you
25 tell her to get 135, 120?
Page 59
1 A. I don't recall exactly.
2 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: 95?
3 A. No, no.
4 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Did you think 95 was the bottom
5 figure that you might go to?
6 A. No, no, I think it was 120 or 135. I don't recall
7 exactly, but I think these two figures we brought up,
8 I think, 120 or 135. But I think the price was put
9 there.
10 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: There is a big difference between
11 120 and 135.
12 A. I think it was 120, I think.
Page 60
· Para 73 (a) - T5/60/23 to T5/61/14.
23 Q. She says that what you were looking for was to be able
24 to sell the aircraft between $100,000,000 and
25 $110,000,000?
Page 60
1 A. I don't think so, because if I was at 95, why would
2 I sell it at 110? I mean, I wanted to get the maximum
3 price. I think 120 was the price.
4 Q. It is a very good price to get between 100 million and
5 110 million, even if you have paid 90 million or
6 95 million. That is a very good price because it has
7 depreciated for three years.
8 A. It depends who is the seller. Not me.
9 Q. Do you remember, whether she said to you -- whether you
10 said to her that you wanted to get between $100 million
11 and $110 million?
12 A. No, I think 120, and she was happy with that, because,
13 I mean, her job is to go and to convince Gaddafi to buy
14 it at 120.
Page 61
· Para 75 - T5/73/19 to T5/79/8:
19 take that. The question I want answering is whether you
20 say there was no discussion on the Boeing about her
21 commission?
22 A. My emphasis --
23 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: No discussion at all? That is the
24 question I want answering.
25 A. She maybe wanted to allude to it, but I never let her
Page 73
1 talk about it.
2 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You are telling me, on oath, there
3 was no discussion between you and her on the Boeing
4 about her commission?
5 A. No. She could have wanted to get into that, but
6 I stopped her, I said "I will talk about nothing but
7 price now, only the price", I was very adamant about
8 that:
9 MR FREEDMAN: You stopped her. How far did she get?
10 A. I'm saying, if she talked about it, I did not give her
11 any room to talk about it, because I told her "One
12 emphasis right now: a contract and $120. If you get
13 that, I will see what I can do". It is exactly like the
14 Movenpick Hotel.
15 Q. That wasn't your response --
16 A. There was no contract. I gave her an amount I thought
17 was right.
18 Q. That wasn't your response, what you said was -- my Lord
19 asked:
20 "You are telling me, on oath, that there was no
21 discussion between you and her on the Boeing about her
22 commission?"
23 A. There wasn't.
24 Q. And you said "No, she could have wanted to get into that
25 but I stopped her"?
Page 74
1 A. No, no, no, please don't put my words. She could have
2 wanted to get into that, but I never gave her a chance
3 at all, with Fouad Alaeddin's presence.
4 Q. What you said was that you stopped her and what I want
5 to know is, how did you stop her? What did she say
6 before you stopped her?
7 A. I said she may have wanted to talk about it, but I gave
8 her no room for that.
9 Q. How did you know she may have wanted to talk about it?
10 A. When you talked about price, clearly her objective was
11 to take commission. It was very clear that she wanted
12 to take commission. But at that time, I was adamant
13 I don't want to talk about commissions. And to prove my
14 point, your Lordship, if she really had the $10 million
15 in her mind, why in her three letters to me she never
16 mentioned that amount?
17 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: We will come on to the letters, but
18 of course, what people write in letters doesn't
19 necessarily reflect what they agree orally. What people
20 write in letters doesn't necessarily reflect what they
21 truly believe. We have seen that this morning.
22 I'm more concerned about the discussion and, as
23 I understand your answer, as Mr Freedman has pointed
24 out, to my question, "Was there any discussion?", I read
25 your answer as saying, she started to have a discussion
Page 75
1 but you stopped her.
2 A. No.
3 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Is that your evidence?
4 A. No, what I'm saying, that she could -- if I gave her the
5 chance, she would have loved it.
6 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I don't want "would have" or "could
7 have", that is speculation. I want to know, from your
8 own memory, what you actually recall, all the things
9 you -- you were with her on the plane for an hour and
10 all your evidence says is that there was a short
11 discussion about the level of price you wanted. That is
12 all you say in your evidence.
13 Now, I want to know whether you say there was any
14 discussion between her and you about her commission on
15 the plane?
16 A. My statement is very clear, it says:
17 "I simply could not have confirmed to Alaeddin or
18 the claimant that I have agreed to a commission of
19 $10 million, indeed or any commission."
20 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is speculative reconstruction.
21 I want to know from your memory. I don't mean
22 paragraph 29.1. What does your memory tell me about
23 what discussion there was?
24 A. My memory says the following: that I gave her no room
25 whatsoever to really get into that, although her body
Page 76
1 language and her mental status wanted to get into that.
2 But I was adamant. I say "At this stage, please, we
3 talk about $120 million. I need to get that", because
4 I can't talk about commission or fees for her, because
5 I need to get Gaddafi to say "Yes, 120". He never
6 accepted that when I met him, he only said I will take
7 the A340 and we will talk. So I said "Fine". It was
8 breakthrough to be able to sell the plane. So at that
9 time, I didn't discuss the commission or the
10 consequences, because he may have rejected my offer
11 completely, he may have come and said "$50 million", and
12 then I have to withdraw the plane.
13 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I can only go so far,
14 Your Highness, in allowing you to not answer the
15 question and, if you don't answer the question, I shall
16 conclude that you are not answering the question because
17 you are unwilling to tell me the truth. It is very
18 important. This is the key meeting from the claimant's
19 point of evidence when the present claim for commission
20 was finalised. It is the most important meeting in her
21 evidence after the agreement in the restaurant. And you
22 tell me nothing in your witness statement about the
23 discussions about commission.
24 I want to know whether that was because there was no
25 discussion or some discussion. What is the answer to
Page 77
1 that?
2 A. No discussion, because I did not give any chance to
3 deviate from the $120 million. Clearly, I know very
4 well she would have loved to discuss that subject. But
5 my objective at the time, your Lordship, was to get the
6 commitment of $120 million with Gaddafi so she was not
7 given the chance.
8 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The transcript will recall what I'm
9 summarising to be your answer. You are telling me that
10 there was no discussion at all about her commission. Is
11 that what you are telling me on oath?
12 A. Yes.
13 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: No discussion at all?
14 A. No discussion. That is my recollection. But I know
15 that if I gave her the chance, she would have loved to
16 talk about it.
17 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Once you say that, you open the
18 door to give an impression that there was an attempt to
19 have a discussion, but it was short-lived.
20 A. Your Lordship --
21 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: What is the body language? Did she
22 lean forward and say "Give me the money"?
23 A. I will give you an example, she said "I was successful,
24 I was able to get to Gaddafi, we can keep the plane here
25 right now", and all these implications means "I deserve
Page 78
1 something", but I just evaded that completely, because
2 I don't want to talk about commission at that time. The
3 body language says, you know, "I was able to get to
4 Gaddafi to meet him, he took the 340, that is a good
5 achievement, you know, it was successful", all these are
6 implications that she wants a commission. It is very
7 clear. And I never said no. She had done a good job.
8 The question --
Page 79
· Para 75 (a) - T5/73/19 to T5/74/14
19 take that. The question I want answering is whether you
20 say there was no discussion on the Boeing about her
21 commission?
22 A. My emphasis --
23 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: No discussion at all? That is the
24 question I want answering.
25 A. She maybe wanted to allude to it, but I never let her
Page 73
1 talk about it.
2 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You are telling me, on oath, there
3 was no discussion between you and her on the Boeing
4 about her commission?
5 A. No. She could have wanted to get into that, but
6 I stopped her, I said "I will talk about nothing but
7 price now, only the price", I was very adamant about
8 that:
9 MR FREEDMAN: You stopped her. How far did she get?
10 A. I'm saying, if she talked about it, I did not give her
11 any room to talk about it, because I told her "One
12 emphasis right now: a contract and $120. If you get
13 that, I will see what I can do". It is exactly like the
14 Movenpick Hotel.
Page 74
· Para 75 (a) - T5/79/4 to T5/79/8
4 Gaddafi to meet him, he took the 340, that is a good
5 achievement, you know, it was successful", all these are
6 implications that she wants a commission. It is very
7 clear. And I never said no. She had done a good job.
8 The question --
Page 79
· Para 75 (a) - T5/79/19 - T5/80/13.
19 MR FREEDMAN: So far you have told us about lots of things
20 she said, but none of that is body language, is it?
21 A. What is that?
22 Q. I said so far you have told us lots of things that she
23 said, but none of that is body language, is it?
24 A. Objective at that time was to get $120 million, only.
25 Q. You said her body language and her mental status wanted
Page 79
1 to get on to that?
2 A. Sure, common sense.
3 Q. You don't know what her mental status is; do you?
4 A. That is my own analysis. I could be wrong.
5 Q. Your body language reference is just plainly ridiculous,
6 isn't it.
7 A. Your own point of view, I respect. I don't accept.
8 Q. All right. You were there, what was the body language?
9 A. I told.
10 Q. You told us things that she said, not body language?
11 A. Yes, for example, "When you do this" -- for example,
12 "I have done a good job. I'm with you, Prince" and all
13 these things are implications of what was next for me.
Page 80
· Para 75 (b) - T5/78/17-19.
17 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Once you say that, you open the
18 door to give an impression that there was an attempt to
19 have a discussion, but it was short-lived.
Page 78
· Para 75 (c) - T5/78/23 - T5/79/8.
23 A. I will give you an example, she said "I was successful,
24 I was able to get to Gaddafi, we can keep the plane here
25 right now", and all these implications means "I deserve
Page 78
1 something", but I just evaded that completely, because
2 I don't want to talk about commission at that time. The
3 body language says, you know, "I was able to get to
4 Gaddafi to meet him, he took the 340, that is a good
5 achievement, you know, it was successful", all these are
6 implications that she wants a commission. It is very
7 clear. And I never said no. She had done a good job.
8 The question --
Page 79
· Para 78 (6) (b) - T6/59/10-16
10 A. I don't know what the Prince paid or not paid. I know
11 that the value of this aircraft, which through all the
12 people who deals with these aircraft, including Airbus
13 Industrie, was in the range of like 40 million. At the
14 moment, at the moment, this aircraft, this aircraft,
15 they are doing investigation because it has two bullets
16 in it, and if --
Page 59
· Para 78 (6) (b) - T6/60/12-17
12 A. My evidence was the valuation of the people who
13 manufactured the aircraft, which is Airbus Industrie,
14 plus three different people who deals with aircraft
15 internationally, all of them they came up with such
16 a price for the aircraft in that particular year, which
17 is in the range of 40 million.
Page 160
· Para 84 - T5/104/17-22
17 first item. Number two, I told her -- she assured me
18 that if we go to Libya, these things could be on track.
19 So I told her, "If they can be on track, then fine", and
20 at that time there was discussion that, "If this thing
21 is consummated, then, again, I will pay you something
22 based on your work".
Page 104
· Para 84 - T5/95/11 to T5/111/6.
11 Q. If we then move on to what happened at the Georges V on
12 30 August of 2005 now.
13 A. Which page?
14 Q. If you go to the witness statement of Mrs Sharab at
15 page 26. So tab 1, page 26?
16 A. Page 1.
17 Q. Tab 1, page 26?
18 A. That is Mrs Daad's statement.
19 Q. Yes.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. I want to show you a part of that statement. She is
22 referring to what happened at the meeting at the
23 Georges V?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. She says at paragraph 98 that the meeting lasted for
Page 95
1 about an hour, and during the meeting you said you were
2 fed up and asked for assistance:
3 "... and he stated that he wanted the matter closed
4 as quickly as possible and I could then have my
5 commission."
6 Then it goes on to what she says about it.
7 A. What she says thereafter.
8 Q. We will come back to that in a moment. At the moment
9 I'm interested in the statement that you said she could
10 have her commission. If you go to your evidence in
11 response, we can find that behind tab 3 at page 51.
12 A. Yes. Which page, please.
13 Q. Page 51?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. At paragraph 43 you say:
16 "I met with Mrs Sharab at the Georges V in Paris
17 where I often conduct business meetings on
18 30 August 2005. We subsequently travelled to Libya to
19 meet with Colonel Gaddafi."
20 So you say nothing about the fact that you said to
21 her that she could then have her commission. Do I take
22 it from that that you agree that what you said at the
23 Georges V was that she could then have her commission
24 once the matter was closed?
25 A. No. I mean, she said -- she mentioned commission,
Page 96
1 I didn't mention commission in my statement. At that
2 time, I'm telling you, we had the price there, so the
3 last thing we are likely to discuss is commission,
4 frankly speaking.
5 Q. You don't contradict it in your statement. That's the
6 point I am making. You see it in her statement and you
7 are responding to her statement and you don't contradict
8 the fact that you said to her that she could then have
9 her commission once the matter was closed. That is the
10 point I'm making.
11 A. I saw what she said here, but to me really at time the
12 most important thing was to get this back on track, to
13 get the $50 million paid.
14 Q. Yours was very carefully prepared statement
15 contradicting all matters of importance. Why didn't you
16 contradict her statement that you had said that she
17 could have her commission when the deal closed?
18 A. I think you have to ask my lawyers.
19 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: We cannot, I'm afraid.
20 MR FREEDMAN: It is your statement, not the lawyers'
21 statement.
22 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: We would like to but we cannot.
23 A. Frankly speaking, I recall looking at this, but I don't
24 know why this was not put there. But at that time,
25 your Lordship, the main objective was to go to Libya to
Page 97
1 get Gaddafi to give the $50 million. Really at that
2 time this could have gone in any direction.
3 MR FREEDMAN: I suggest to you that the reason why it wasn't
4 contradicted is because it is true?
5 A. You know, I always said I will pay her commission.
6 I never said that. The question is how much the amount.
7 I never said that. I completely agreed with his
8 Lordship's statement a minute ago.
9 Q. But you weren't saying "If at the close of the deal
10 I exercise my discretion in your favour I will pay you
11 a commission"; you said "When the deal is closed I will
12 pay you the commission"?
13 A. At that time we had crisis. The last thing we are
14 talking about is commission. If there is no deal there
15 is no competition. And there is no discretion for me to
16 give her anything.
17 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: In your witness statement, go back
18 again to paragraph 43 on page 51, you tell me absolutely
19 nothing about the conversation that took pace at the
20 Georges V, do you?
21 A. No.
22 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Any detail about what was said at
23 all?
24 A. I do say it was a considerable inconvenience for me to
25 interrupt my schedule and plan to go to Libya.
Page 98
1 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is not a recounting of what
2 was discussed. Where do you tell me -- as far as I can
3 see, all you say about the Georges V meeting is:
4 "I met with Mrs Sharab in Paris at the George V
5 Hotel where I often conduct business. We subsequently
6 travelled to Libya."
7 Where do you tell me anything about that
8 conversation in your evidence?
9 A. At the time it is very clear that we had a problem with
10 Libya. Our main objective is to get this thing back on
11 track.
12 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Remember your witness statement is
13 your evidence in this case in response to what she says.
14 If you look at paragraph 98 of her witness statement,
15 back at page 26, you see there she talks about closing
16 the deal and then she says that you said that she could
17 then have her commission.
18 She says she told you it was all your fault it was
19 going wrong. She says that she recommended that you
20 should go Libya and apologise to the President. She
21 says you agreed to do so and gave her a free hand to
22 negotiate a settlement.
23 She says all of that was discussed at the meeting at
24 the Georges V?
25 A. Yes.
Page 99
1 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: And you do not contradict any of
2 that evidence in your witness statement, do you?
3 A. No, I do -- can I read from this, your Lordship, I say:
4 "I have explained about ... I had and continued to
5 have a good relationship ... contrary to what the
6 claimant has alleged in her witness statement I did not
7 apologise to Gaddafi for not returning the Airbus to
8 Tripoli after scheduled maintenance."
9 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: We will come on to the meeting and
10 what might have been said between you and the President
11 in the tent. I'm more concerned at this stage about the
12 evidence of what happened at the Georges V. She has set
13 out a lot of detail about what was discussed and you say
14 nothing, nothing at all, do you?
15 A. I say one thing: I want my $50 million.
16 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Where is that in your witness
17 statement?
18 A. Maybe it is not here, but that -- that -- I don't know.
19
20 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You don't even say that, do you?
21 A. Fine.
22 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It is not fine. It doesn't help me
23 and it doesn't help you if I don't understand what your
24 case is. I'm trying to understand what the discussions
25 were at the Georges V and in your witness statement
Page 100
1 which is now, what, three years old, which you had an
2 opportunity to read, to correct, if you wanted, to
3 supplement, if you wanted, before you went into the
4 witness-box, despite all of that, you are now telling me
5 for the first time and telling Mr Freedman for first
6 time, I understand your answer to be that you said to
7 her "I want my 50 million", is that what you are telling
8 me?
9 A. I say here:
10 "Our objective was to go to Libya and get the
11 contract back on track."
12 That is the only thing that I had in mind.
13 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I understand the objective, but I
14 want to know what was said and you say nothing about
15 what was said at all, do you?
16 A. But if it was not written, it doesn't mean we didn't say
17 it. We discussed about when to go to Libya and what to
18 say to Gaddafi and how to be sure to get the $50 million
19 back to me.
20 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I would have thought, Your
21 Highness, that when she says on oath that she told you
22 it was your fault and that you should go and apologise,
23 and that you agreed to do that -- because that requires
24 a lot from you, doesn't it? It requires you to go to
25 Colonel Gaddafi and say "Sorry, it is all my fault "and
Page 101
1 that you agreed to do that.
2 A. That is not what happened, your Lordship. I contradict
3 that.
4 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You do not disagree with that
5 statement in your evidence, do you?
6 A. But if I don't disagree, it doesn't mean I agree with
7 it. When I went to Gaddafi he is the man who apologised
8 and he said "I should sack my cousin".
9 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I'm not even sure she was
10 cross-examined on this paragraph. Was she?
11 MR FREEDMAN: I don't think she was.
12 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I don't think a contrary story was
13 put in cross-examination. I have no notes and I usually
14 put notes when people are cross-examined. I don't
15 believe your counsel cross-examined her on this
16 paragraph.
17 It is important, and I can't understate the
18 importance, that if evidence is disputed, the contrary
19 must be put.
20 Now so far as I'm concerned you don't dispute it in
21 the witness statement and it wasn't put to her.
22 That means that unless you give evidence now and you
23 explain why you are giving it now and I accept it, so
24 far as I'm concerned what happened at the Georges V is
25 as she says. That is the only evidence I have.
Page 102
1 A. Okay. Could I state my position on what happened at
2 Georges V?
3 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You can do. You can say it now and
4 Mr Freedman will no doubt have something to say about it
5 when he hears what you say for the first time what
6 happened at the Georges V. You tell me what happened at
7 the Georges V.
8 A. At the Georges V, the main objective was to prepare for
9 our trip to go to Libya to meet up with Gaddafi and,
10 sure enough, we went there with a leased plane. We are
11 not going with my plane, because we were concerned
12 that -- we were not sure about he may confiscate the
13 plane or not, so we went in a leased plane and, when
14 I met him, I met him privately and I met him in the
15 presence of her. I think Fouad Alaeddin may have been
16 there also. I don't remember well, but I think Fouad
17 was there also, and he had some of his people and he
18 said -- you know, he ended up apologising to him. He
19 said "What took place is wrong. My people should not
20 have done that", and he actually began cursing his
21 cousin, Ahmad Gaddaf. At that time he said, "We are
22 going to pay you everything and we are going back on
23 track". That is what happened in Libya with him.
24 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: We are going to get to Libya, but
25 your long answer there does not tell me anything about
Page 103
1 what was said at Georges V again. I will give you one
2 more chance, Your Highness, to tell me what you say was
3 said at the Georges V. Not what was done afterwards;
4 what was said then.
5 A. At the Georges V?
6 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Yes.
7 A. When we met with Daad, we said "What is the plan when we
8 go to Libya?". She did say, you know, that at that time
9 she was not very happy, the fact that I took the plane,
10 you know, but I told her that I had no other choice but
11 to take the plane, because she believed that this thing
12 disrupted her plan, but I told her, "I had only
13 $70 million and no plane. What recourse do I have on
14 them?", because they could tell me, that is it, they
15 were reneging. So I tried to convince her that I took
16 the plane to safeguard my interest. So that was the
17 first item. Number two, I told her -- she assured me
18 that if we go to Libya, these things could be on track.
19 So I told her, "If they can be on track, then fine", and
20 at that time there was discussion that, "If this thing
21 is consummated, then, again, I will pay you something
22 based on your work".
23 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You mean in your discretion?
24 A. Your Lordship, I always believe that she deserves to get
25 something. The dispute here is my discretion or the
Page 104
1 $10 million she is talking about.
2 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I don't want your belief, but your
3 conversation. Did you, at the meeting, say to her "Of
4 course, Mrs Sharab, you realise that I will pay you
5 something when I recognise your work, it is entirely at
6 my discretion"? Did you actually use those words at the
7 Georges V?
8 A. I don't recall that exactly, but, you know, it is not
9 impossible. I don't recall it, to be honest. I have to
10 give you the truth exactly. Because my position was
11 I was not even sure that at that trip I will be able to
12 reach an agreement with him. Because we were very
13 concerned, by the way, there was still a lot of tension
14 between us. You know, we didn't go in my plane, we
15 leased a small plane from a company --
16 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You didn't want to lose another
17 plane, did you.
18 A. Yes. I was scared he will confiscate it, to be honest
19 with you. So we were still very tense and things were
20 not harmonious.
21 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Is that the entirety of what you
22 now tell us, for the first time, happened, you say, at
23 the Georges V?
24 A. Yes, to the best of my recollection.
25 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Mr Freedman will want to take that
Page 105
1 up with you. I have probably asked enough questions,
2 for my purpose, for the moment.
3 MR FREEDMAN: I am going to deal slightly out of turn, but
4 it is more important, while we are focusing on the
5 Georges V, to deal with it now.
6 You accept, don't you, that the request that she go
7 to the Georges V came from you?
8 A. You know, I don't recall how it happened, but for sure
9 I met her at the Georges V. I don't recall if I called
10 her or she called me, because we were always
11 communicating during the Libyan crisis.
12 Q. You know very well that you called her and sought her
13 out and sought her help?
14 A. It is a possibility. I don't deny it, but I can't
15 confirm because I don't recall the exact call between me
16 and her.
17 Q. She didn't offer to come to Paris, you asked her to go
18 to Paris.
19 A. No, but she would like to come, for sure, please, she
20 wanted to finish this deal also.
21 Q. Do you deny that she was sought out by you?
22 A. No. What is the question?
23 Q. Do you deny that the reason why she went to Paris was
24 because you requested her to come to Paris?
25 A. I told you, I don't recall exactly what triggered the
Page 106
1 meeting between us.
2 Q. So you don't know if that is correct or not correct, but
3 you don't deny it; is that what you are saying?
4 A. I don't recall meeting in the Georges V and leaving
5 together actually.
6 Q. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about why she
7 came to the Georges V. She came because you asked her?
8 A. She came for one purpose: to finalise the deal and to be
9 sure the payment comes back to her.
10 Q. The circumstances were as follows: notwithstanding the
11 fact that you had taken the aircraft or arranged for the
12 aircraft to be taken from Germany to Riyadh in
13 about March 2004, that is 17 months earlier, you were
14 unable to get a resolution of your problem with the
15 Libyans by then, weren't you?
16 A. Fouad Alaeddin went there a few times with her, I think,
17 alone, but with no conclusion, because Al-Dam was
18 adamant about taking commission.
19 Q. I don't really want to waste too much time if there is
20 not an issue between us, particularly in view of your
21 commitments, but I want you to agree, if it is correct
22 that as at 30 August 2005, despite you having got the
23 aircraft 17 months earlier to Riyadh, you had not
24 resolved the problem with the Libyans; is that correct?
25 A. For sure correct, yes.
Page 107
1 Q. The reason why you sought her to come to Paris was
2 because you sought her assistance at that point to try
3 to resolve the problem with Libya?
4 A. You have to add to that that Fouad went a few times to
5 Libya and Saleh El Ghoul went a few times to Libya.
6 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It didn't work, you still have not
7 got your 50 million. That is Mr Freedman's point.
8 A. No, but, your Lordship, the foundation began getting
9 prepared. Still it was not finalised, and the fact of
10 the matter, I was worried to go with my plane, because
11 sure it was not finalised yet. It was only finalised
12 when I met him personally.
13 MR FREEDMAN: It is not a question of finalisation, it is
14 a question of you being at your wits' end by 30 August
15 2005. You sought her out because you wanted her to
16 resolve the problem.
17 A. And still it was not resolved.
18 Q. That is why you requested her presence in Paris and that
19 is what the discussion was about?
20 A. I don't understand, why do you try always to eliminate
21 Fouad Alaeddin from the equation?
22 Q. You said that you were fed up and you asked for her
23 assistance in sorting out this long-outstanding problem,
24 didn't you?
25 A. Definitely I was fed up. We were all fed up.
Page 108
1 Q. You asked for her assistance to sort out this
2 long-outstanding problem, didn't you?
3 A. Her support was needed with the others.
4 Q. You said you wanted the matter closed as quickly as
5 possible and she could then have her commission, didn't
6 you?
7 A. This thing would not have been resolved unless two
8 things had happened: I took the plane from Germany; and
9 my going to Libya, meeting Gaddafi personally.
10 Q. Would you confine your answers to the questions?
11 I'm asking you specifically about what took place on
12 30 August. I'm suggesting to you that you said to her
13 that you wanted the matter closed as quickly as possible
14 and she could then have her commission?
15 A. Based on my discretion that is a possibility.
16 Q. Not based on her discretion.
17 A. My discretion.
18 Q. You just said she could have her commission?
19 A. My discretion.
20 Q. Do you have a recollection as to what you said about her
21 commission?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Do you think she would have said "That is fine. I'll go
24 along and do anything you like, if there is
25 a possibility that I may, at the exercise of your
Page 109
1 discretion, have a commission"?
2 A. She could have withdrawn and say "I don't do the deal".
3 No one stopped her.
4 Q. I suggest that it was against the background of your
5 confirmation that she would get her commission that she
6 then proceeded further to help you?
7 A. No one is disputing the fact of commission; the question
8 is the amount of commission.
9 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Rephrase the question.
10 Mr Freedman says that you agreed for her to carry on
11 on the basis that she would get the commission as she
12 says was agreed by you in the Boeing, namely, the
13 10 million.
14 That is the question Mr Freedman is putting to you.
15 A. Your Lordship, the $10 million was never approved by me,
16 never discussed. I always said "I pay what you
17 I believe is right". I'm very sure about that.
18 MR FREEDMAN: She told you that you were at fault, that you
19 had been making problems and that you should go and
20 apologise to Colonel Gaddafi.
21 A. She said that, but obviously it was incorrect.
22 Q. But you agree that she said that, don't you?
23 A. I don't recall exactly, but she did fault me, she did
24 fault me. I don't care about the --
25 Q. Do you agree that I've summarised the gist of what she
Page 110
1 said?
2 A. That is what the statement says.
3 Q. Do you agree with it?
4 A. She wanted me to be in a weak position and she wanted me
5 to go there and apologise, because she believed that
6 Gaddafi will accept to have a deal with me.
Page 111
· Para 100 - T4/172/21 - T4/175/4
21 Q. So it was irrational on your part to suggest, as you do
22 in the note, that absent a successful transaction there
23 should be no payment?
24 A. It was an arm twisting process.
25 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Whose arm is twisting whom?
Page 172
1 A. I was twisting his arm. Basically, I tell him, you
2 know, you go, work and although the money was owed to
3 him for sure, because he did do work, if the deal was
4 consummated, I can't put the blame on him, obviously, so
5 I don't want to put maximum pressure on him right now to
6 go there and have this money suspended, because he is
7 the type of guy, if you don't pay him, he nags and he
8 goes up to you day by day, and that was relatively
9 speaking a big amount for him.
10 MR FREEDMAN: It follows, does it, that when you said, on
11 this matter there is no agreement whatsoever, that was
12 a lie; you knew there was an agreement?
13 A. There was an agreement -- I'm telling you, this was
14 a pressure mechanism on him because he got a copy of
15 that and he didn't like it, obviously.
16 Q. Leave aside why you lied, it was a lie, wasn't it?
17 A. It was not a lie, it was a pressure mechanism.
18 Q. It was a lie, because you knew that you had an agreement
19 with the accountants that they would be entitled to
20 charge their hourly rate?
21 A. Your interpretation is a lie; my interpretation is arm
22 twisting.
23 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Let me have a look at my
24 interpretation with the lie. There was an agreement to
25 be paid, to pay them on an hourly basis; yes or no?
Page 173
1 A. For this thing there was no agreement, he only charged
2 me by the hour. So there is no written agreement for
3 him to proceed on this one.
4 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: There was no written agreement for
5 him to do anything; he was a consultant and he did his
6 hours, and whatever you asked him to do, pay you hourly?
7 A. Yes, and he used to charge me on this and on other deals
8 the same price.
9 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: He did all of this work and,
10 subject to proving he had done it all, he would be
11 expected to be able to charge you on an hourly basis for
12 the work he did on the plane?
13 A. Correct.
14 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: So when you say in your note, which
15 he sees, there was no agreement whatsoever, that is
16 untrue, because there would be an implicit, or implied
17 agreement, to use your words, that if he did the work on
18 it and he proved he did the work on it, you would pay
19 him an hourly rate?
20 A. Yes, correct. And this invoice was paid to him
21 eventually.
22 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: So although it is arm twisting, it
23 is arm twisting to put him under pressure, but you are
24 writing something that is untrue, aren't you?
25 A. No, because at this time I had talked to him that there
Page 174
1 was no agreement on that matter, but I want to put
2 maximum pressure on him right now, so this matter was
3 settled and it was paid to him in full.
4 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Okay.
Page 175
· Para 100 - T4/175/5 - 13
5 MR FREEDMAN: Going on in the note:
6 "We can neither accept nor tolerate these bills that
7 have no basis."
8 On your evidence they did have a basis, ie the
9 hourly rate and the disbursements?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Therefore it was wrong to say that the bills had no
12 basis, wasn't it?
13 A. No, that is why they were paid eventually.
Page 175
· Para 100 - T4/177/11 to T4/178/21.
11 Q. I suggest to you that there must have been charges or
12 invoices from Ernst & Young to you in relation to these
13 services. Where are they?
14 A. That is the only bill we have from him.
15 Q. What searches have you undertaken for these bills?
16 A. We have looked all over the place, and we found other
17 bills that are not relevant to this whole thing.
18 Q. There must have been other bills in relation to those
19 services. Are you saying that you have lost them or
20 what?
21 A. No, to this particular case this is the only bill
22 I have, we found.
23 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: He has not charged you for any work
24 that he has done after 2004?
25 A. No, no.
Page 177
1 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is what you are telling me?
2 A. No, he did not.
3 MR FREEDMAN: How would you respond if you were in the room
4 and you were invited to respond after I had said at the
5 end of this case to his Lordship that that evidence is
6 unbelievable. How would you respond?
7 A. I would -- this matter became very personal for Fouad.
8 Fouad took it upon himself to work day and night to
9 consummate and finalise this deal. He took it very much
10 personally, because he was very upset from the Libyans,
11 from the corruption of Gaddaf Al-Dam, from the
12 corruption of the people under Gaddafi, so he took it
13 upon himself to finish it as a challenge and he did so,
14 because he is very honourable.
15 Q. And I suggest to you, just as there must have been
16 invoices in respect of the period after May 2004, so
17 there may have been invoices in respect of the period
18 before September 2002, including the meeting at Ayoush?
19 A. As in relation for this transaction, this is the only
20 bill we have from Fouad Alaeddin's company at the time,
21 Ernst & Young.
Page 178
· Para 101 - T4/179/24 to T4/182/5.
24 Q. What I suggest you mean by that is that when the
25 aircraft has been sold, she will receive the
Page 179
1 $10 million, no more and no less?
2 A. That is very wrong because I talk about the agreement
3 with Ernst & Young, but I talk with her on the
4 arrangement. There is a big difference between an
5 agreement and an arrangement. Arrangement means
6 something that is up to my discretion. When I say no
7 more or less, that means that is it, I will not discuss
8 anything further. That is the literal translation of
9 the Arabic [Arabic word].
10 Q. But you are not simply saying there is an arrangement,
11 you are saying that you will stand by it?
12 A. Sure.
13 Q. Stand by it means that if there is a completed sale, you
14 will pay?
15 A. Sure. Based on my discretion, you will pay. I'm not
16 reneging on that at all.
17 Q. Nothing about discretion. When you reach that moment,
18 you will pay her that which is agreed, no more and no
19 less?
20 A. Based on my discretion.
21 Q. Not based on your discretion, you are standing by the
22 arrangement. In other words, as you agreed a moment
23 ago, when it got to completion you would pay her, no
24 more and no less?
25 A. Actually, in her letters to me she never even mentioned
Page 180
1 $10 million. She was always alluding to the
2 arrangement, which means your discretion, Prince. In
3 all the letters she never mentioned 10 at all.
4 Q. But no more no less must have in mind a fixed sum?
5 A. Not necessarily.
6 Q. No more and no less than that fixed sum?
7 A. Not necessarily, you are linking the no more and no less
8 to an amount. I'm linking it to no more and no less
9 discussions, that's it, close the subject.
10 Q. No more and no less cannot refer to a variable figure or
11 something that you would make up at your discretion; it
12 is something that is fixed, isn't it?
13 A. Not necessarily.
14 Q. What do you mean not necessarily?
15 A. Not necessarily, that is your interpretation. My
16 interpretation is no more and no less discussions, that
17 is it, close the subject.
18 Q. Do you agree with me that that is the logical
19 interpretation, no more and no less is by reference to
20 a fixed sum?
21 A. I agree that you could interpret it this way, yes, but
22 that is not my interpretation. But I also know very
23 well that even her, in her letters, she never mentioned
24 the figure 10 at all. She kept it for my discretion
25 because she knew that I would decide what is the fair
Page 181
1 amount. Clearly this whole thing disappeared completely
2 when she switched sides and she said in her letter to
3 me, "I am now on Gaddafi's side, no more on your side",
4 and that is when I decided enough is enough. Whatever
5 I had in my mind now is going to become zero.
Page 182
· Para 102 - T5/55/10-12
10 Q. You accept, don't you, that after you left the Airbus,
11 you had a discussion in your Boeing with Mrs Sharab?
12 A. And Fouad Alaeddin, yes.
Page 55
· Para 103 - T5/197/3 to T5/201/3
3 "You don't have an obligation; it is just matter of
4 discretion"?
5 A. Because she is circling around the $10 million figure
6 which I never uttered, I never acknowledged and I never
7 accepted.
8 Q. How do you know she is circling around the $10 million
9 figure?
10 A. She knows that and I know that. That is why she didn't
11 mention the number here.
12 Q. Now did you know that she was circling around the $10
13 million figure?
14 A. That is what she was seeking.
15 Q. The reason why you know that is because you know that
16 you entered into an obligation with her that would end
17 up with you having to pay $10 million?
18 A. If I accepted that I would have paid it and she would
19 have wrote it in this letter and the other letter.
20 Q. You are not answering the question. Why didn't you
21 respond saying there was no obligation; it was just
22 a discretion?
23 A. Because we were completely far away from her position
24 and from my position.
25 Q. How did you know that?
Page 197
1 A. Because she was thinking of $10 million.
2 Q. How did you know that?
3 A. She said that to Fouad many times. She did say that to
4 Fouad.
5 Q. You understood what she meant by "the obligation"?
6 A. He was calling me, Fouad, and telling me that is what
7 she wants.
8 Q. That was on 15 July from the Corinthia Bab Hotel?
9 A. No, that is not true. Fouad used to come to me later on
10 and said she wants the money. I said, okay fine, I will
11 pay her what I agreed in my discretion. He said, "No,
12 she wants 10", and I said "I'm not going to pay her 10".
13 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Can you say that a bit slower,
14 please. That is quite an important response.
15 A. Fouad in my meetings said, "She wants her money".
16 I said "I'm willing to pay her based on my discretion".
17 And he said she wants what she believes is her right,
18 $10 million. I said "No, you know and I know," and
19 Fouad accepted my term, that is why I want him to be
20 a witness but obviously he declined last minute, and
21 I said "I will pay her my discretion", and he said "No,
22 she wants $10 million", and I said "No".
23 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Those were important conversations,
24 were they not? Are any of those in your witness
25 statement?
Page 198
1 A. No, not to me, but that is what Fouad told me verbally.
2 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Because until you said that
3 I didn't know how you knew she wanted $10 million.
4 A. That is what Fouad told me.
5 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Before this letter.
6 A. I did not respond to her. So she used to call Fouad and
7 he used to come to me.
8 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: As at 19 September 2006, this is
9 a couple of weeks before you finally get the money, her
10 case is that on a number occasions she said to you, "My
11 fees are 10 million" and you agreed it. But you do not
12 accept that in any conversation she had with you she
13 mentioned the figure of 10 million and you deny that the
14 agreement as made in the Boeing was 10 million.
15 So up until this litigation there is nothing that
16 I have seen where she says, "I want 10 million".
17 Even this letter, which you have rightly pointed out
18 in response and you have raised the question, "If it was
19 10 million why didn't she say it", but that letter
20 doesn't refer to 10 million.
21 For the first time you are telling Mr Freedman --
22 I think it is the first time, isn't it?
23 MR FREEDMAN: Correct.
24 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: -- that you found out she wanted
25 10 million from Mr Alaeddin; is that right?
Page 199
1 A. She told Fouad because Fouad was trying to mediate
2 between us and he used to come to me.
3 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: When did she do that?
4 A. At a later stage.
5 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You mean after this date?
6 A. Yes, after all these letters were done also. And I
7 never answered her. No, no, no, Fouad told me about the
8 10 million before this letter was sent to me.
9 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Before the letter?
10 A. Yes. That is why I said no, my agreement with her I pay
11 her my discretion, and I told Fouad "You were present at
12 the meeting".
13 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: He has said "before" and "after" in
14 different answers.
15 MR FREEDMAN: Yes, "before" and "after".
16 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: None of this is in your witness
17 statement, not a jot of it.
18 A. No, but I mean --
19 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You don't tell me in your witness
20 statement how you found out she wanted 10 million.
21 I thought the case as put to her was that the first time
22 she mentioned 10 million was when the solicitors wrote.
23 A. But at the end clearly, when I never accepted
24 $10 million that Fouad told me about, she obviously
25 became desperate and began sending me all these letters.
Page 200
1 I told Fouad "You were in the plane with me when I told
2 her at that time we will discuss nothing but the contact
3 with the Libyans".
Page 201
· Para 103 (2) - T5/198/3-4
3 A. She said that to Fouad many times. She did say that to
4 Fouad.
Page 198
· Para 103 (3) - T5/198/15-22
15 A. Fouad in my meetings said, "She wants her money".
16 I said "I'm willing to pay her based on my discretion".
17 And he said she wants what she believes is her right,
18 $10 million. I said "No, you know and I know," and
19 Fouad accepted my term, that is why I want him to be
20 a witness but obviously he declined last minute, and
21 I said "I will pay her my discretion", and he said "No,
22 she wants $10 million", and I said "No".
Page 198
· Para 103 (3) - T5/200/6-8
6 A. Yes, after all these letters were done also. And I
7 never answered her. No, no, no, Fouad told me about the
8 10 million before this letter was sent to me.
Page 200
· Para 103 (3) - T5/200/10-12
10 A. Yes. That is why I said no, my agreement with her I pay
11 her my discretion, and I told Fouad "You were present at
12 the meeting".
Page 200
· Para 103 (3) - T5/201/1-3
1 I told Fouad "You were in the plane with me when I told
2 her at that time we will discuss nothing but the contact
3 with the Libyans".
Page 201
· Para 120 (1) - T4/5/5-8 and see also lines 21 - 25.
5 Do you accept that in April 2003 she made
6 arrangements for you to go to Libya and to visit
7 Colonel Gaddafi?
8 A. That is correct.
21 Why in that paragraph do you not say that Mrs Sharab
22 made the arrangements for your visit to Libya; why do
23 you say simply "arrangements for my visit were made"?
24 A. Because to me there is not much difference. They are
25 the same.
Page 5
· Para 120 (2) - T4/17/21-22
21 A. The lead was Fouad Alaeddin, because Daad for sure, she
22 cannot draft any contracts.
Page 17
· Para 120 (2) -T4/37/15 to T4/39/20.
15 Q. At paragraph 19, four lines from the bottom of the page,
16 it says this:
17 "Save that it is denied that any of the matters
18 alleged were done in furtherance of the agreement,
19 paragraph 23 is admitted."
20 So you were not admitting, you were denying it was
21 in furtherance of the agreement, but you were admitting
22 that Mrs Sharab was the principal negotiator in relation
23 to these negotiations. Why is it that when I asked you
24 the question five times, you refused, you were not
25 prepared to agree that she was the principal negotiator
Page 37
1 but in your defence you say that she was?
2 A. Yes, I told you it depends what is the definition of
3 "the lead". I never said she is not principal. She was
4 part of the team and Fouad Alaeddin played a big role,
5 so you are trying to minimise the impact of Fouad and
6 maximise her role. They both played a big role in this
7 whole thing.
8 Q. You didn't have that difficulty when you were agreeing
9 to the terms of the amended defence, did you?
10 A. What do you mean?
11 Q. You didn't have any difficulty in agreeing, when you
12 approved the defence, to the fact that Mrs Sharab was
13 principal negotiator?
14 A. Well, you know, I told you, it depends what is the
15 definition of "principal negotiator".
16 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Why not say that in the defence,
17 then, that you are not sure what is meant by the
18 expression "principal negotiator"? The paragraph seems
19 to me to be clear, in the sense that it is saying the
20 claimant was the principal negotiator and therefore she
21 would agree a big picture price, but Mr Alaeddin's role
22 was to negotiate the detailed financial aspects of the
23 deal, so he is the number cruncher, is what I would say,
24 of the deal, and you do not disagree with that; in fact,
25 you accept that in your answer.
Page 38
1 A. Yes, they both played a role, no doubt about that. She
2 had access to Gaddafi and that is why I called her to
3 open the door to Gaddafi, when I met her in Cannes
4 because I really didn't want to go to Gaddafi on that
5 particular matter because I had so many other big things
6 going with him right now at that time, so I only wanted
7 to go through her and Faouad Alaeddin to talk about the
8 airplane issue.
9 I'm not underestimating her role, but don't
10 exaggerate her role also, because I also had access to
11 Gaddafi personally.
12 MR FREEDMAN: Can I suggest the reason why you didn't agree
13 with me on the five occasions when I asked you if she
14 was principal negotiator is because you actually do want
15 to understate her role to this court?
16 A. I don't want to understate her role at all, but also
17 I don't want to exaggerate her role beyond reason, and
18 as you see, as things developed, her role almost, not
19 diminished, evaporated and disappeared at a later stage.
20 You will see that as we progress in the discussion.
Page 39
· Para 120 (3) - T4/65/25 - T4/68/13.
25 Q. Paragraph 61:
Page 65
1 "Later still, on or about 4 September 2005, the
2 defendant telephoned the claimant in London and
3 expressed his gratitude for her efforts and success."
4 You accept that that is true, don't you?
5 A. I'm not denying that, yes, it is possible.
6 Q. It goes --
7 A. Yes, yes.
8 Q. It was a bit stronger than that, because if you go to
9 behind tab 3 --
10 A. The same bundle?
11 Q. The same bundle behind tab 3 at page 29.
12 A. 29, yes. Yes.
13 Q. At paragraph 41 you say:
14 "The first and third sentences of paragraph 61 are
15 admitted."
16 So when you served your defence you didn't just say
17 it was possible, you said:
18 "This is correct".
19 A. Fine, I'm not saying no.
20 Q. What has happened since then that now it is only
21 possible but then it was correct?
22 A. I think the word -- to me they are interchangeable.
23 Q. You know they are not interchangeable. One of them
24 involves you accepting that that happened, and the other
25 is you are saying, "I don't know whether it happened or
Page 66
1 not, I'm not in a position to deny it."
2 A. No, I'm always saying that she played a role, but you
3 are trying to exaggerate it and I'm trying to give it
4 reality.
5 Q. I think you understand the difference between, don't
6 you, on the one hand accepting that something happened,
7 and on the other hand simply saying, "It is possible
8 that it happened, I don't know whether it did or
9 didn't"?
10 A. No, I'm saying she played a role. You are trying to
11 exaggerate it and I'm trying to be realistic.
12 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You are not, with respect, Your
13 Highness, because when you say it is possible, you are
14 not even admitting that the conversation took place as
15 she said.
16 A. Your Lordship, I definitely say I had many calls with
17 her. I don't recall that call exactly happening, but
18 for sure I was in contact with her and I was pleased
19 with her involvement.
20 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Your defence admits the
21 conversation took place.
22 A. I'm not denying it.
23 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: There is a difference between not
24 denying it and admitting it. It all goes to a matter of
25 proof. If you admit that the conversation took place as
Page 67
1 she says then there is no investigation of it. If you
2 are saying it might or it is possible then Mr Freedman
3 has to ask more questions. Which is your answer?
4 A. I don't recall an exact conversation, but for sure, for
5 me to call her after the trip to Gaddafi happened, which
6 was somehow successful, I would say yes.
7 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Can I say that your answer to
8 Mr Freedman's questions is you do not recall the precise
9 date of the conversation, but you accept that around
10 this time you telephoned her and congratulated her on
11 what she did?
12 A. For sure, yes.
13 Thank you, your Lordship, for clarifying the matter.
Page 68
· Para 120 (4) - T4/15/20-24
20 Q. And do you agree that he wanted the negotiations to take
21 place with Mrs Sharab and Mr Alaeddin?
22 A. He didn't really bring up this situation at all, but the
23 professional contact between me and him was
24 Fouad Alaeddin.
Page 15
· Para 120 (4) - T4/18/2-18
2 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is not the question. The
3 question is whether you accept that Colonel Gaddafi
4 asked her to be part of your negotiating team. That is
5 the question that Mr Freedman is asking, because you
6 said earlier that he didn't ask that.
7 A. I don't recall, frankly --
8 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Mr Freedman is pointing out that
9 you admit in your defence that he did ask it. Neither
10 of those two statements can stand side by side. One
11 must be wrong. Which one is wrong?
12 A. I tell you. The contact between me and him was
13 Fouad Alaeddin. For sure I do acknowledge that during
14 certain periods Gaddafi used to use her, and I didn't
15 mind that at all, and I did utilise her services to
16 support, because she access to him directly, although
17 the relationship with all juniors under Gaddafi, as
18 I discovered later, were really very negative.
Page 18
· Para 120 (4) - T4/22/6 - T4/23/11.
6 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: He [that is Colonel Gaddafi] also
7 asked the defendant [that is you] to send the claimant
8 and Mr Alaeddin to conduct the negotiations."
9 That is what the claimant says.
10 If you go your defence, paragraph 18 I think it is
11 again.
12 A. 18 of what?
13 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Of the next tab, which is your
14 defence. Sorry, paragraph 16 on page 26.
15 A. Yes.
16 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You admit that paragraph.
17 A. Fine, if that is the case, we accept it.
18 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You cannot just say "well fine"
19 because in response to an earlier question from
20 Mr Freedman, you denied that the President had asked her
21 to be brought into the negotiations.
22 A. Because, remember, your Lordship, I don't remember all
23 the facts, this has been a long time ago, but ...
24 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I understand that, and I understand
25 that you wouldn't remember all the facts, I wouldn't
Page 22
1 expect anybody to remember these events with
2 particularity, but it is therefore perhaps important for
3 you in the way in which you give your evidence to say
4 when you don't recall, as opposed to saying things which
5 Mr Freedman has demonstrated are contrary to what has
6 been said on your behalf before.
7 A. Right, clear.
8 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: So if we come back to it, do you
9 now accept that Colonel Gaddafi asked her to participate
10 in the negotiations?
11 A. If that is -- yes, if the statement says that, yes.
Page 23
· Para 120 (5) - T4/41/22 to T4/44/3
22 You were acknowledging that you wrote various
23 letters to Colonel Gaddafi and you acknowledged that you
24 asked Mr Alaeddin to follow this up with his Libyan
25 contacts. Why did you not acknowledge that which we
Page 41
1 read at paragraph 73, namely that all of these letters
2 were sent to you -- to Mrs Sharab by you for her to
3 deliver by hand to President Gaddafi?
4 A. Delivering the letter was one third of the story. The
5 other two-thirds of the story was really -- is that the
6 process was not at that time managed by Gaddafi. He had
7 his juniors involved, like the head of intelligence,
8 like his chief of staff, like the head of airlines, and
9 also those people had a very bad relation with her
10 personally.
11 Q. Is the reason why you brushed her out of that part of
12 the story because you want to minimise her role in this
13 matter?
14 A. No, I told you, at that time when the $50 million was
15 not paid it was very clear that those junior to Gaddafi
16 had really tried to be obstructive and not to implement
17 the rest of the agreement, and mainly it was his cousin
18 that was supposed to transfer the $50 million, and she
19 had no access to him at all.
20 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Just a minute. I understand that
21 issue. Mr Freedman is undoubtedly going to take you to
22 that issue later in his cross-examination. At the
23 moment he is concentrating on the fact that you wrote
24 a number of letters and Mrs Sharab wrote a letter and
25 you knew they were all hand delivered.
Page 42
1 A. Yes.
2 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I would have thought that the
3 reason that you give her the letters to deliver is that
4 you can then be confident because of her links with the
5 President that the letters will be seen by the President
6 and you would hope that the President would act on them.
7 A. That is correct. That is correct.
8 MR FREEDMAN: Why do you not acknowledge expressly her role
9 in relation to that when replying to her paragraph 73?
10 A. Because at that time when the $50 million was not paid
11 it was very clear that obstacle is not coming from
12 Gaddafi personally, it was those junior to him creating
13 obstacles because they wanted to have bribes and
14 commissions which I was against completely.
15 Q. Do you accept that you handed those letters to
16 Mrs Sharab or that you made sure that she had those
17 letters and asked her to deliver them personally to the
18 President?
19 A. Yes. Letters were given to her for sure, because she
20 had good access to Gaddafi, yes.
21 Q. Why didn't you say so in her witness statement?
22 A. Because frankly speaking the impact of these letters
23 were really of no importance at all, because Gaddafi
24 used to transfer these letters to his juniors, and the
25 juniors did not really act on it at all because they had
Page 43
1 personal reasons and they had personal objectives which
2 I was against, such as paying commissions and bribes
3 which I did not really accept.
Page 44
· Para 120 (5) - T4/49/4
4 A. But I did send many letters to Gaddafi.
Page 49
· Para 120 (5) - T4/59/7 to T4/61/7
7 side.
8 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: When we look at the contract, it
9 didn't say 120, did it, the contract actually said 70
10 for the plane?
11 A. The first contract, yes.
12 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: 70 for the plane.
13 A. Yes.
14 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It didn't say 120, so it is not
15 a no-brainer because somebody who doesn't know what is
16 actually happening would look at the contract and say
17 you have been paid in full for the plane, wouldn't they?
18 A. Yes, but she --
19 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: If I saw the document, the document
20 was shown to me for the first time, and I was asked to
21 advise you, I would say, "Your Highness, the contract
22 which you signed entitles you only to 70 million, and
23 you have had it", and you would have to explain to me as
24 a complete stranger that there is a lot more to it. So
25 it is not a no-brainer. The other side can exploit it
Page 59
1 if they wish, can't they?
2 A. Those who were involved in the process, such as her,
3 Fouad Alaeddin and the seniors in the Libyan government
4 and Gaddafi knew it was 120 very well.
5 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Yes, but when we look at it, we
6 will see that Mr Al-Dam, who actually had the money, was
7 not in the same position.
8 A. Same position as what, your Lordship?
9 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: He didn't know what the true deal
10 was and he was using the fact that the contract said 70,
11 wasn't he, to say, "Give me a bit of money and it will
12 go through"?
13 A. The fact they paid $50 million eventually proves that
14 the contract was 120, your Lordship.
15 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: We will discuss how the 50 million
16 came to be paid later.
17 MR FREEDMAN: For the moment what I want to ask you again is
18 this: I want to suggest to you that she was putting on
19 the line her close relationship with Libya and with
20 Colonel Gaddafi in order fearlessly to represent your
21 interests, wasn't she?
22 A. Based on that letter, yes.
23 Q. Do you then remove or withdraw what you said that it
24 wouldn't take a genius to write a letter like that; in
25 fact, it did take some amount of courage and conviction
Page 60
1 on her behalf?
2 A. There is a big difference between having courage and
3 being a genius. It is a fact of the matter that she
4 knew that 120 had to be paid, and she also knew that the
5 plane is under my name and if this thing didn't
6 materialise, the payment of the $50 million, I would
7 just take the plane back.
Page 61
· Para 121 - T5/86/24-25.
24 diminished substantially. When I took possession of the
25 plane, things went sour with the Libyans completely.
Page 86
· Para 140 - T6/130/20-24.
20 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: How many other transactions do you
21 have when your client is frightened to turn up to the
22 seller's country in his own jet because he thinks it
23 might be seized?
24 A. It is very unusual.
Page 130
· Para 142 - T6/168/16.
16 A. I think two adults can agree to anything, so I clearly
Page 168
· Para 143 (a) - T6/130/14-17
14 Can we just pinpoint certain of the factors. The
15 second factor, "The parties involved", I can write next
16 to that Gaddafi, can I not?
17 A. It would be a factor to consider for sure, yes. In this
Page 130
· Para 143 (b) - T6/132/7-10
7 A. And it is certainly an unusual situation, it is an
8 unusual asset and, yes, there would have been a very
9 limited market for the aircraft, that is undoubted.
10 MR FREEDMAN: That is undoubted.
Page 132
· Para 143 (c) - T6/132/17-19
17 a popular type and it is in a configuration that makes
18 it very unusual, even within that niche. So it would
19 have been a very limited market for the aircraft.
Page 132
· Para 143 (d) - T6/134/4- 8
4 MR FREEDMAN: Next of your items at page 48 are the
5 countries involved. There is only one country really
6 involved and that is Libya. So that is not very
7 promising, is it?
8 A. Again it adds to the difficulty of the transaction.
Page 134
· Para 143 (e) - T6/134/9-12
9 Q. And part of the difficulty of the transaction would be
10 the length of time it would take to complete because the
11 more difficult the transaction, the more the potential
12 for lengthy delays?
Page 134
· Para 143 (f) - T6/135/9:
9 A. It could be a factor, yes, as I have stated.
Page 135
· Para 143 (g) - T6/135/10-13
10 Q. And political sensitivities, you only have to say the
11 words "Libya and Gaddafi" and you immediately think of
12 political sensitivities, don't you?
13 A. Yes, but there are many other countries like that.
Page 135
· Para 143 (h) - T6/136/2-15
2 If it were the case that there were a number of
3 other people who were trying to interest Colonel Gaddafi
4 in the sale of an aeroplane at the time, would that be
5 a relevant factor to fixing a reasonable fee?
6 A. I wouldn't know if that was the case.
7 Q. But say it was the case.
8 A. You have to assume that at any time, any buyer is being
9 approached by other sellers.
10 Q. Say it was stronger than that and there came a point
11 when Mrs Sharab from attending Libya in January of 2003
12 had found out that there were five or six others who
13 were trying to sell specific aircraft to
14 Colonel Gaddafi, so it was a competition.
15 A. Yes.
Page 136
· Para 143 (i) - T6/137/11-18
11 Q. Isn't the most important factor of all that you have
12 mentioned, the one at page 43, in that paragraph four
13 lines from the bottom:
14 "Every case is assessed on its merits."
15 A. Absolutely. That is why I also say we don't have a rate
16 card, we do exactly that. We look at a project and take
17 a whole range of factors into account before deciding
18 what would be a reasonable fee.
Page 137
· Para 143 (j) - T6/142/5-8:
5 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: And you probably could count on
6 probably no more than two hands potential buyers I would
7 have thought?
8 A. I would agree.
Page 142
· Para 143 (k) - T6/144/3-6
3 Do you agree with that?
4 A. I don't know where he has drawn that from, but he is
5 probably right, but I've not analysed the market at that
6 time.
Page 144
· Para 143 (l) - T6/157/19-24
19 agree with. If you go to page 57 you talk there about
20 what you do agree with, and you talk about at the end of
21 that that there is no set or specific figure for the
22 amount of commission or percentage in each case it is
23 negotiated?
24 A. I think that is clear from my evidence.
Page 157
· Para 143 (m) - T6/158/16 -25
16 Q. What you are not doing is you are not challenging there
17 that Mr El Turk does enter into deals with the
18 commissions of the kinds that he describes in his
19 evidence?
20 A. Well I don't think it was my position to challenge his
21 evidence, it is his evidence against mine. So I'm
22 saying that my evidence is that we are not seeing the
23 sorts of fees that he is.
24 Q. What I suggest to you is that you are coming at the
25 matter from different places and from different
Page 158