Re AK
JUDGE'S SCHEDULE OF Dr S'S
& CHARLOTTE KOSTER'S [OFFICIAL SOLICITOR'S REPRESENTATIVES'] INTERVIEWS
WITH AK
[Note: This is a digest of
the various interviews touching on the issue of marriage. The originals cover
more ground.]
1. Charlotte Koster's
first attendance on AK on 11.3.11 (4mths after the marriage) at the
Neurodisability Unit [C164 to 167].
C: "Who visits you?"
AK: "BK, my
girlfriend. But I think that is by the way now. Me and her stopped for some
reason, whether it's something I said, or her, I don't know". [C164]
C: "Are you married?"
AK: "No I was married".
C: "Do you have a son
or daughter?"
AK: (enthusiastic tone) "Son,
W".
C: "How old is W?"
AK: "He is eight."
[W was 11½ in March 2011].
C: "What is W's mother's
name?"
AK: "AS" [correct
answer]
C: "Do you like to
watch or take part (in sports)?"
AK: "I like to take
part. I like to go running".
C: [C167] "Are you
expecting any visitors today?"
AK: "BK is due today."
C: "Is she your
girlfriend?"
AK: "Yes, but I've not
seen her in a while". [AK sees BK almost daily].
C: "Would you like to
see BK?"
AK: "I would like to
see BK, but that's gone by the way. I would like to see W more. I would like
to see him more but he can't come unless she brings him up. He's too little,
too small". [AK's son, W, was 11½ in March 2011].
C: "When you said "she
brings him", who is "she"?"
AK: "BK, she is his
mum. ... BK is with W at the swing down the road. BK will always be with W".
[BK is not W's mother and she does not look after him].
2. Dr S's first
interview with AK, 19.6.11 (7mths after marriage) at the Neurodisability Unit,
90 minutes with a break [E49 to E61].
Dr S: "Who is BK?"
AK: "She is my ex
girlfriend really ... I'm now married to her I wasn't at the time W was born".
Dr S: "How long have
you been married?"
AK: "Beginning of this
month went up to Scotland and got married up there".
Dr S: "How is married
life suiting you?"
AK: "Suits me fine. I
actually work up here. Work on the roads ... laying curbs at the moment and
the red tile brick". [B49] [AK is quite unable to work].
Dr S: "What do you like
about living here [the Neurodisability Unit]?"
AK: "Sport and exercise
- at the moment we are playing football - have to hop over the ball with leg
that's lacking. ... my favourite when I first came was the javelin, but they
kept getting pinched by the lads outside". [AK is wheel-chair bound].
Dr S says at E50: ?When I asked
AK to clarify who he wanted to spend his nights with, he said his friends; he
did not mention BK.'
Asked by Dr S when he wanted
to live with BK, AK said he would like to do so "As soon as possible but
obviously got to get other things sorted - got to get W out of school yet - he's
in one of these type of places - put in one of these homes. He's in a type of
home for young children, he's only eight." [W was then 11 and was living
with his mother, not in a home].
Dr S: "When was the
last time you drove?"
AK: "Last September [which
would be 2010] I think".
Dr S: "Do you think
your accident has left you with any difficulties driving?"
AK: "No, o no".
[E52].
Dr S: "Do you take any
medicines?"
AK: "No ...[Then]: I
take tablets all the time ... when I was working up the farm last year, I was
trying to shear the wool of the sheep and one of the clamps came off and hit me
on the back of the head".
Dr S: "How far can you
walk?"
AK: "About 4 or 5 miles
easy ... I'm usually alright once I'm up in the fields".
Dr S: "How has your
memory been?"
AK: "That's been
alright".
Dr S: "Any problem
remembering things way back in your past?"
AK: "No I don't think
so".
Dr S: "Any problems
remembering what you did yesterday?"
AK: "I was up in the
fields, looking for sewage, looking for dogs".
Dr S: "Who are you
married to?"
AK: "BK".
Dr S: "How old is she?"
AK: "21 I reckon".
[BK was then 53] [E54]
Dr S: "Do you think
here is the best place to live, or with BK?"
AK: "With BK, I
honestly do. I could get up, ready, bathed when ever I wanted to, not rushed
about to try to get ready".
Dr S: "Any other
advantages in being married to BK?"
AK: "We could have
children when ever we wanted to as long as have a few quid put by. We love
each other".
Dr S: "Do you and BK
have a sexual relationship?"
AK: "Aye".
[AK then answered correctly a
number of Dr S's questions surrounding sexual relations: E55/E56].
Dr S: "Have you been
married before?"
AK: "Married A [correct
name given] - that was in S, 1987. Married a couple of years. [AK was married
to A for 5 years, from marriage in 1978 to separation in 1983]. She said I was
playing around but I wasn't. Divorced last year [actually 1983]. After that
married a lass called L, 1997. [AK's two former wives were A and AS]. Married
a short time ... divorced her this year. After L I didn't marry anyone else,
though I married A [correct name given] again I think".
Dr S: "Anyone else you
married?"
AK: "No, you got Lilly
down, yes?"
Dr S: "Do you have any
children?"
AK: "No". [AK has
a son, W]
Dr S: "Not with any of
your marriages?"
AK: "No".
Dr S: "But you told me
about W. Who is he?"
AK: "My son now".
Dr S: "How old is he?"
AK: "11 and one month
old [roughly correct]. Lives in Y [village] with his mother".
Dr S: "So how many
times have you been married?"
AK: "In total about
eight times". [3 times].
Dr S: "What is the
nature of your relationship with BK?"
AK: "We were having
sex. That's all the relationship was".
Dr S: "Are you a
partner, married, living together, or just friends with BK?"
AK: "A partner, we're
living together, more than a partner".
Dr S: "Are you married
to BK?"
AK: "No I divorced BK
because I was going to marry T". [E57]
Dr S [at E59]: "Can I ask,
are you married?"
AK: "I've been married".
Dr S: "Are you married
at the moment or are you single?"
AK: "I think I'm single
but I was married to a lass called BK".
Dr S: "How long where
you married for?"
AK: "Four or five
months".
Dr S: "And are you
divorced now?"
AK: "As far as I know,
aye".
Dr S: "When was the
last time you saw BK?"
AK: "Maybe 6 or 7
months ago [BK visits AK more or less daily] in the X Night Club in Z [town]".
Dr S: "Have you seen
her since then?"
AK: "No. Just in
passing. She's been on one side of the road and I've been on the other".
Dr S: "Would you like BK
to visit you here, or not?"
AK: "If she's up to it
aye. If she can get herself here without putting herself out".
Dr S: "And why would
you want her to visit?"
AK: "To talk about
things, things had not time to think about in the past, like why we got
divorced. I could write that down on a bit of paper".
Dr S: "Would you like
anyone else to visit you?"
AK: "Our DK [brother] could
come in if he can".
Dr S: "When was the
last time you saw him?"
AK: "About 4 months ago
in my place in Y [village]".
Dr S: "You have not
seen him [DK] since?"
AK: "No".
Dr S: "Do you get
people visiting you here?"
AK: "Not very often no".
Dr S: "Who would you
like to visit you?"
AK: "My parents visit
me as much as they can. BK doesn't visit us much".
Dr S: "Are both your
parents alive?"
AK: "Yes". [AK's
father died in 1984]. [E60].
[AK Then answered correctly various
questions surrounding sexual relations].
3. Dr S's second
interview with AK at the Neurodisability Unit on 22.6.11 (3 days after Dr S's
previous i/v) [E75 to E80].
Dr S says "... I asked AK
whether he remembered me. He said he had seen my face before, but could not
remember where, but thought it around six months ago. He did not appear
surprised or disturbed when I said it was only four days ago."
Dr S says he asked AK how many
times he had been married?
AK: "3 times at least,
to be honest".
Dr S: "Are you married
or single at the moment?"
AK: "Hard to say, but
single at the moment. I was married to L, she lived at (names a street)".
[AK has had three marriages: A: AS: and BK].
Dr S: "Who else have
you married in the past?"
AK: "L was the last.
Before L was P, but I can't remember her surname."
Dr S: "Is there anybody
else you have been married to?"
AK: "No you got them
all there".
Dr S asked AK at E75 to explain his
relationship with BK:
AK: "She is an
ex-partner of mine from years ago. Last saw her Sunday just gone".
Dr S asked AK what his relationship
with BK was?
AK: "I haven't any,
none at all. Friends I would say. No we're not going out".
Dr S says he informed AK that he had
married BK and was still married to her and asked whether he remembered?
AK: "Yes, married her
up in Scotland, the place where the little people go to, can't remember the
place now, but it is where rainbows are".
Dr S says he asked whether AK was
still married or divorced? AK said that they were divorced. AK went on to
tell Dr S that the divorce took place at Z Registry Office, he thought about
six months ago. Dr S says he checked with him whether he was talking about
divorce or marriage, pointing out that Registry offices usually are involved in
marriages (rather than divorces). AK insisted it was for divorce and added:
AK: "Going there this
Saturday, marrying a partner of mine, BK's daughter really".
Dr S says that AK was able to tell him
that the Registrar marries people and the reason why two people marry is
because they love each other. AK added:
AK: "And they want to
get away from the home they are in and live together".
Dr S says he asked AK why
two people would choose to marry, rather than just live together?
AK: "If you get
married, you would be better off money-wise, you get your holiday pay and more
money coming in".
Dr S says he asked whether
there were any consequences to marrying, rather than just living together, to
which AK replied that there were not. Dr S asked him, should he marry again,
who would get the compensation money that he is due for his head injury?
AK: "Yes, my partner
would have to sign something to say that she would not be able to claim any of
my monies".
Dr S asked AK, if he had a
substantial compensational claim and then died, who would he want the house to
go to? AK said very clearly ?to W'. Asked why:
AK: "Because my wife
would have more chances to work; W wouldn't be able to save up for money for
people to do works on the house".
Dr S asked AK again whether he was
married at the current time?
AK: "That's a funny
question. I am married at the moment to L, but I am and I am not. L does not
want to carry on with it, she wants a divorce, but I don't know if she is going
to go through with that yet". [E77]
Dr S says that AK said he was
working at the moment on the roads and was getting paid "£5.50 per hour, a
day. Also get a week bonus about £20 or £30." [AK is quite unable to
work].
Dr S asked whether he had ever
married BK?
AK: "No, but she always
announced that we were married".
Dr S asked AK where he was living.
AK confidently gave the full address including post code of an address which Dr
S later understood was AK's mother's.
Dr S asked whether his head injury
had left him with any problems?
AK: "Main problem is
that it is hard to remember things. I remember more by doing a lot of exercise
by running and that sort of thing. Health-wise I'm not sure I wouldn't like to
say. My walking is alright". [AK can take only a few steps, with
support].
Dr S [E79] asked AK again what his
relationship was with BK?
AK: "I'm living with
her at the moment. We were [sic] going to marry, the back end of this month.
I love her".
Dr S asked AK what marriage meant
to him?
AK: "If you marry
someone, that's the end of it. She won't go out looking for someone else".
Dr S asked AK whether there were
any legal or financial consequences to getting married?
AK: "No, none".
Dr S asked AK, should he die and be
married at the time, who would his estate/money go to?
AK: "Legal-wise, it
would go to W. [AK's son] I would leave anything money-wise, it would all go
to W".
Dr S says that AK knew that if people
are married, they probably live together. AK said if things did not work out
in marriage, you could leave and go with someone else.
Dr S asked AK what would make him
decide to marry BK, rather than just live with her?
AK: "We love each
other. I want to marry her, but need to get things sorted out first, such as
where we are going to live and how much we are going to pay for it".
When Dr S told AK that he was
already married to BK, AK did not appear surprised by this and merely said:
AK: "Yes down Z [town].
February or March or April last year".
Dr S asked him what made him to
decide to marry BK?
AK: "We decided just
because of love. I have no regrets of getting married".
4. Dr S's third
interview of 35 minutes at Stanhope with AK on 8.7.11 (just over two weeks
after the previous interview) [E84 to E86].
AK told Dr S he was living with his
mother and gave her address. He said he wanted to live on his own, with BK
looking after him. [E84]
Asked whether he was married, AK
said that he was married to AS, but when Dr S checked this with him [E85] by asking
?are you still married to her?', he said he was married to BK.
Dr S asked AK how people marry?
AK: "You go to church
and put your name into a register, telling them you want to get married, in a
little bible book". (AK told Dr S that they (seemingly BK and himself) were
married last month, December, in Z [town] at the registry office.
As to why people marry:
AK: "You have to be married
to fulfil everything you want to do. You live together. Good sex. You should
be faithful, for as long as you can be. Being in control of things,
controlling my money".
Asked whether you could be married
to more than one person at a time, AK initially said he thought you could,
before changing his mind; but he was still unsure, saying ?I don't think so'. [E85]
By this time Dr S said in his evidence that he felt AK was getting tired.
Dr S asked AK what he thought the
duties of a husband were?
AK: "Everything that
does not really belong to you, things [that] are not really yours, go to the
Registrar".
Dr S asked AK, when two people
marry, do they share their money or is it separate?
AK: "Her's is her's and
mine is mine".
Dr S says that AK believed this to
be the case, even if people divorce.
Dr S asked AK why people divorce?
AK: "When enough is
enough".
Dr S says AK was not aware of any
consequences, financially, should he (AK) divorce.
5. Charlotte Koster's
second attendance on AK at the Neurodisability Unit on 4.10.11 (nearly a year
after the marriage) [C168 to C174].
C [C169] asked how AK would spend
his compensation money?
AK: "I'll buy a
bungalow in Y [village]. That's where I live. My parents are down there. I
can help them tidy the house".
C asked if both AK's parents were
alive?
AK: "No father passed
away last year [actually in 1984]. I have a brother DK, he is younger, 22yrs
old." [DK was 51 in November 2011. AK gave his own date of birth
correctly as 16.9.56, but giving his age as 29].
C asked if AK had children:
AK: "A lad, he has not
visited me yet. He has visited once or twice. He was born on 15th
December 1971 [W was born in 1999] and will be 8 years old tomorrow". [If
born in 1971, W would have been 40].
C: discussing a professionals'
meeting due to take place that week:
AK: "My wife might
attend. I would rather have her there, then she could write down what she
thinks." [C169]
AK stated at C170: "I
might be moving on. Mum looking after me at moment". [Not so].
C asked AK whether he would live on
his own?
AK: "No with my
girlfriend, BK [he accurately stated BK's maiden name]. I like her visiting".
C asked AK whether he and BK talk
about what they will do in the future?
AK: "we talk about what
we are going to do with our money. Holidays, where we will go."
C asked what else they talked
about?
AK: "All sorts of
things, silly things. We are getting married one day. Might get married on Saturday,
then we are going to look for a bungalow".
C asked where AK will be married?
AK replied that he loves BK.
He said "BK [using her correct maiden name] visits now and then. W, he
visits as well ..."
C asked who AK likes visits the
most?
AK: "I prefer my mum.
I would like her to visit more".
C asked whether AK would do
anything that BK would ask him to do:
AK: "Usually yes".
C asked AK whether he is married at
the moment [4.10.11]?
AK: "No".
C asked AK the name of his last
wife?
AK: "A" ["A"
was AK's first wife].
C asking whether AK was married to BK?
AK: "No I am getting
married to BK". Asked where, AK said: "Church, a Methodist Chapel on
Middle St, down there" (pointing out of the window).
C asked if AK had told anyone else
he was getting married:
AK: "DK knows". AK
said he loved BK and wanted to get married: "... Today we are going to the
church to talk about the ceremony. I am going to wear my green suit. I have
got married before."
C asked AK whether he had talked
about what he was going to say?
AK: "We have done. BK
has got it all written down."
C asked who would be coming to AK's
wedding?
AK: "BK doesn't care
who's there or not".
C asked who he himself (AK) would
like to come to the wedding?
AK: "I would like DK to
be there, but I don't think he can get the day off work ...."
C asked who else AK would like to
attend the wedding:
AK: "Mum". Asked
whether his mum would like to attend, AK said: "I think she would actually".
[AK's mother and his brother DK were not told about the wedding to BK until
afterwards].
C asked what AK and BK had talked
about in planning their wedding?
AK: "BK has it all
written down, what I am going to say and what I am going to say to the Bishop.
What I have to say and what I don't have to say".
6. Charlotte Koster's
third attendance of AK at the Neurodisability Unit on 11.6.12 (1yr 7mths after the
wedding) [C175 to C177].
C asked AK where he lived now?
AK: "[gave accurately
the address of his mother's home, including the postcode]. Asked whether he
lived there with anyone else, AK said: "With mother". [AK was in
fact living at the placement].
C asked where in the future AK
would like to live, (AK immediately answering):
AK: "In Y".
C: "Where in Y?"
AK: "Same place as
before with my mum. Don't know if I can or not".
C asked AK where he would ask to
live if he had the last say?
AK: "I want to live in Y
with my mum."
C asked whether AK had a son, AK said
"Yeah, W". Appeared more animated.
C noted that AK's mother, brother
and W visit him and asked him who else visits regularly?
AK: "Loads of friends,
Brian, John and ..."
C asked whether AK had a
girlfriend?
AK: "Yes, L".
C asked if his girlfriend was nice?
AK: "Been nice, not
nice now". Asked how often L visited, AK stated "four times a month".
C asked whether AK knew who BK was?
AK: "My girlfriend now".
C pointed out that AK had just said
that L was his girlfriend and asked whether he had two girlfriends?
AK: "No".
7. Charlotte Koster's fourth
attendance on AK on 23.10.12 [1yr 11mths after the wedding] at Hospital [C178
to C180].
C asked AK where he lived before
coming to Hospital?
AK: "At home" and "Y
[village]". (There are several references to AK appearing tired).
C asked AK who visits him?
AK: "DK, my younger
brother, and mum once a week". And "Jack [incorrect name]... my son".
C asked AK ?are you married?'
AK: "No".
C asked AK whether he would like to
be married?
AK: "Yes I would".
C asking AK who he would like to
marry?
AK: "EC".
C asked AK what would be good about
being married and why he would like to be married?
AK: "Help around the
house" and "have sex and the like".
C asked AK if he would be getting
married in the future?
AK: "BK" [using BK's
correct maiden name].
C asked AK if he would like to
marry BK?
AK: "Yes ... told her ..."
C asked who is BK?
AK: "My girlfriend",
and saying it would be good to marry her.
C asked AK why he would like to
marry BK?
AK: "Live with me".
C asking AK his date of
birth?
AK: "16.9.59". [correct
date 16.9.56] Asked how old he was, he said 42. Asked for his address, AK gave
his mother's address.
C asked AK if he had been married
before?
AK: "Yes".
C asked AK who he had married?
AK: "A and AS ...".
C asked AK whether he was married
now?
AK: "Not married".
C asked AK if he would like to be
married?
AK: "Yeah".