CRIMINAL DIVISION
Strand London, WC2A 2LL |
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B e f o r e :
MR JUSTICE TREACY
MR JUSTICE KING
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R E G I N A | ||
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PING CHEN CHEUNG |
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Mr Hunter appeared on behalf of the Crown
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"... as he said in his interview to the police -- and he's told you in the court again today -- he has told you that he did know that there were DVDs in the bag, and it was his intention that he was going to sell the DVDs. And of course this is resolved in this sense, that as you've heard he has pleaded guilty in respect of count 1 on the indictment."
"... the clear defence that he puts before you is that he did not know that amongst the DVDs that were in that bag were the eight that are the subject of these counts."
and that the applicant's case was that he had only had the bag for a short time, he had not opened the bag and it was only when he was at the police station that he had become aware of the extreme DVDs at the bottom of the bag.
"The indictment sheet states that the offence of possession of extreme pornographic images, does the defendant need to have knowledge of the possession and do the prosecution need to prove knowledge beyond reasonable doubt."
"As far as the need for knowledge, in this case the defendant admits that he had the bag, and in the bag were these DVDs, including the eight specific ones. So possession which you have to be sure about, it's a matter for the Crown to prove and the possession is not in dispute. It's his knowledge, his knowledge that they were there. He's not saying, 'They weren't in my bag at all and somebody's put them there at police station,' or anything like that. He's saying, 'I know that they were found in my bag, but I did not know that those eight were there.' And that's where this defence comes in which Parliament has set up, that where a person is charged with an offence under this section it is a defence for that person to show on balance of probabilities that it's more likely than not that they had a legitimate reason for being in possession of the image concerned, and in this particular case that the person had not seen the image concerned and did not know, nor had any cause to suspect, that it was an extreme pornographic image. Possession causes a lot of problems for juries, and for judges and lawyers generally. You might be in possession of something because somebody's slipped it into your pocket, but you wouldn't know it was there because somebody slipped it in without you being aware of it. You wouldn't have knowledge of it being in your possession. You can have possession of something which you may not physically have in your control. You may have given it to someone else, but you actually possess it and can control it. There are many different ways of looking at possession. What will help you in this case is to focus on the issue, which is this defendant says, 'Yes, I had possession of it, but I did not know it was there.' And the prosecution have to satisfy you that it was in his possession, as I say there's no dispute the DVDs were all in that bag. What they have to make you sure of is that he knew he had it in his possession and his defence is on the balance of probabilities, 'I did not know that I had it in my possession.' I hope that helps a little. It's a complicated area of law."
"I think there's a little bit of confusion. Do we have to be sure that the defendant knew that those DVDs were in his bag, or do we just on the balance of probability feel that it was likely that he knew?"
"Right. You have to be sure that he had the items in his possession. If you're sure about that then ask yourself on a balance of probabilities do we think he knew that he had them in his possession. All right? Any other matter or shall I send you back up again, please? All right. Thank you very much, if you'd like to go back into retirement."
(Pause)