CRIMINAL DIVISION
Strand London, WC2A 2LL |
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B e f o r e :
MRS JUSTICE SWIFT DBE
MR JUSTICE HAMBLEN
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R E G I N A | ||
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DEBORAH TATTON |
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Mr D Bennett appeared on behalf of the Crown
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Crown Copyright ©
"JUDGE GLENN: Mrs Tatton, can you just help me with this. You told the jury that your financial situation of 10th May of 2008 was healthy.
A: Yes.
Q: Is that true?
A: It is true, yes. Then I'm in a better financial position now than I've ever been, to be honest.
Q: Right. I'm looking at a legal aid application you've filled in.
A: Mm.
Q: You and your husband's businesses were closed in 2000?
A: Yes. That's when we were suffering financial difficulty.
Q: 'We got into financial difficulty and are currently still trying to clear the outstanding debts'. What are your debts?
A: Still I had some county court judgments and some debts --
Q: County court judgments? Right. Tell us a bit about those.
A: It was all round at the same time. Like I say, we both went self-employed. It wasn't really working. I ended up with some business debts from the shop and we -- at that time we couldn't keep up with the bills.
Q: How many county court judgments are there?
A: I think I had three.
Q: Does five ring any bells?
A: I think my -- two -- two were my husband's. So all together possibly five.
Q: So you had jointly between you five?
A: Yes.
Q: What was the total amount involved?
A: Not a lot. They were quite small. Quite small amounts. I think the biggest one was £350 -- no, sorry. £700 the biggest for water rates which was my husband's --
Q: What was the total amount involved? I'll ask you again.
A: Say possibly about 2,000 -- no, probably a bit more than that, sorry. About 3,000.
Q: How does 4,000 sound?
A: Yes, could -- could have been.
Q: Which is what is specified in your legal aid application.
A: Yes. Could have been. Round about that. Without having the figures sort of in front of me, it's difficult.
Q: Were you earning 29,500 in May of this year?
A: 28,500.
Q: Sorry?
A: 20 -- 27,900. Just had a 2 1/2% pay rise.
Q: Would it be fair to describe you as struggling financially but managing to keep your head above water?
A: No, no, not at the moment. I'm managing to carry on clearing off those debts.
Q: Well, why did you put that in your legal aid application?
A: Because I'm honest so I like, you know --
Q: Well, why have you just denied that that's the case? These are your words.
A: I'm not in -- I'm not in financial difficulty now. At that time I was but I'm still managing to pay -- I'm still paying some of the things off but I'm still managing to survive and keep my head above water comfortably.
Q: A family of three - you, your husband and a 15 year old son?
A: Yes.
Q: And you spend £250 a week, do you, in Asda?
A: Sometimes, yes.
JUDGE GLENN: Yes. I've no more questions. Thank you."
It is submitted that the judge should never have asked those questions.
"Mr Harris, counsel for the appellant, very soon thereafter applied for a new trial on the basis that the questions which had been asked by the recorder and the answers which were provided to them could have done no other but to have caused irreparable prejudice to the appellant; so damaged his credibility that it lay in ruins. Nothing thereafter he submitted which could possibly be said by the recorder could rectify that position. Therefore a fair trial could no longer be had before the jury which was then trying the appellant. Mr Harris asked the recorder to discharge that jury. His request, made with that civility and dignity which typify the Bar in its relationship with the Bench, was treated with disdain, if not hostility. It was with considerable hauteur that the recorder almost refused to listen to what the very polite Mr Harris was saying to him. We gather the impression that the recorder felt insulted that so much as a slight criticism could be made of him and his conduct of the trial. He said he had never heard such nonsense in all his born days and having 'sat in these courts now since January, 1972' he was not going to be told, believe it or not, that he was unfair. He is about to be disabused. He was being grossly unfair. Judges must not take hold of material which is not evidence in the case and use it for the purpose which obviously this legal aid application form was used for, namely to damage the credit of a defendant when giving evidence in the witness box, or in any other way.
It behoved this recorder having regard to what he most regrettably did to have listened very carefully, and with a due sense of humility too, to counsel who had very sensibly and properly suggested a course which the recorder, in the view of this Court, ought to have adopted without demur, which was to have ordered a new trial."
"The Commission shall not disclose to the prosecuting authority any information which:
(a) is in connection with a defence of the individual concerned; and(b) may be used for the purposes of the prosecution of that case."
In other words, it would be unlawful for the prosecution to use the material upon which the judge placed reliance. It must follow that the judge also was not entitled to use it of his own motion.