ON APPEAL FROM THE PRINCIPAL REGISTRY OF THE FAMILY DIVISION
HER HONOUR JUDGE PEARL
FD12P00526
Strand, London, WC2A 2LL |
||
B e f o r e :
LADY JUSTICE BLACK
and
SIR COLIN RIMER
____________________
G (CHILD) |
____________________
Mr James Turner QC(instructed by Hunters) for the Respondent
Hearing date: 9th July 2015
____________________
Crown Copyright ©
BLACK LJ :
"[the judge's conduct] was inappropriate; it was unfair; and has led to an overwhelming perception of unfairness both in the mother and her then counsel who is now a witness".
"I really find this really concerning, first of all that you are saying – I mean a very, very curious situation – that the CAFCASS officer, which I find quite extraordinary, having seen the mother and G, knowing that there were long outstanding proceedings and parties were legally represented, apparently without any reference to the court and without any reference to the father made a referral under section 47 for the Local Authority and also made a unilateral decision that contact should be supervised. It is quite extraordinary and I do not know whether you think the CAFCASS officer has taken himself off the case. I would like that to be clarified because it seems to me all the CAFCASS officer has said is that he does not want CAFCASS to be involved further until these matters of fact have been investigated. Well, let me make it absolutely clear that I do not conduct fact-finding hearings just because a CAFCASS officer has told me to conduct a fact-finding hearing and, indeed, that is not the way these courts deal with these matters."
"Yes or no? Answer the question please. I have read the section 47 report. Does your client accept what has just been submitted to me on behalf of the father, that that deal with those issues of the care given by the father to G during contact? Yes or no?"
"if [the mother] pursues these very serious allegations and I find them not true, that will be an extremely serious matter and if I find that she has coached G to make those allegations or if she has spoken about those untruthful allegations in front of G, that would be extremely serious" (C9)
"THE JUDGE: Do you not think that a child is harmed by the knowledge that her mother has been stabbed by the father?
MR CAMERON: Yes, I do.
THE JUDGE: Do you not think that would make her wary of him?
MR CAMERON: I certainly do but I say –
THE JUDGE: Do you not think that if she was to be told to go to contact by the mother with a man who is capable of attacking her mother with a knife that that is something that the child would grow up to reflect upon and think that was not a very safe way of her mother proceeding?
MR CAMERON: Yes I would but, in the context which you have of clear evidence of thriving care in the father's care, of contact notes which are exceptionally good and evidence that I will ask you to consider of how natural the relationship is –
THE JUDGE: Are you going to appeal my decision to get on with this fact finding hearing?
MR CAMERON: No, absolutely not.
THE JUDGE: Thank you very much. Let us get on with it."
"THE JUDGE: Do you think it is fair that a CAFCASS officer should stop contact completely without even speaking to the father about a matter of fact? Do you think that is the way to proceed?
MS TOCH: Well, of course, he did not. He raised this. He referred the matter to Social Services to investigate and the matter was referred to the court and the court stopped contact. It was not the CAFCASS officer.
THE JUDGE: But he recommended that contact be supervised.
MS TOCH: He wrote a letter to the court to say that contact should be suspended pending the outcome.
THE JUDGE: Do you think that is a fair way to proceed?
MS TOCH: Well, it was referred to the court, so it is a matter for the court.
THE JUDGE: Do you think –
MS TOCH: It is a matter for the court.
THE JUDGE: We are not going to get –
MS TOCH: I am sorry.
THE JUDGE: This is the second time we have had a conversation like this.
MS TOCH: Yes.
THE JUDGE: If I ask a question, try and answer it please.
MS TOCH: The CAFCASS officer did not suspend contact and contact was ordered to be supervised by HHJ Everall –
THE JUDGE: Do you think it is right –
MS TOCH: - on submissions.
THE JUDGE: Do you think this man's evidence on a finding of fact is going to assist me?
MS TOCH: I am not saying it will.
THE JUDGE: Yes or no?
MS TOCH: I am not asking for him. I am saying he is available. I understood the father wished to have him.
THE JUDGE: Well, you have just asked the question [of the father's counsel]. He said he does not want him to be cross-examined.
MS TOCH: And I have heard that, so unless the court wishes him, I do not.
THE JUDGE: Look –
MS TOCH: I am not calling him. Am I clear?
THE JUDGE: No, I know.
MS TOCH: I am not calling him.
THE JUDGE: Let us try and have an exchange, shall we?
MS TOCH: Yes.
THE JUDGE: All right. You have made me angry.
MS TOCH: I am sorry.
THE JUDGE: The second time. This morning I was asking questions. You simply were not answering the questions.
MS TOCH: I am sorry.
THE JUDGE: You must answer my questions.
MS TOCH: I will, yes.
THE JUDGE: Are you going to ask me to rely on this CAFCASS officer's finding or understanding of the truth as part of the evidence I rely upon to substantiate your client's allegation of the stabbing? Yes or no?
MS TOCH: No.
THE JUDGE: Thank you.
MS TOCH: I am terribly sorry. I did not mean to be –
THE JUDGE: I am so grateful to you.
MS TOCH: Yes.
THE JUDGE: No, you do mean to be because this is the second time you have done it and it does not work with me. You are not relying on his assessment of this child's veracity. You are only relying on the fact that it was said. The father does not deny it was said and you are not going to come towards me at the end of the hearing and say, 'Because the CAFCASS believed it, your honour, you must believe it.'
MS TOCH: No.
THE JUDGE: All right. Do you think it was bad judgment for him to recommend that contact be suspended?
MS TOCH: He –
THE JUDGE: Yes or no?
MS TOCH: It was correct judgment to have the matter investigated as it was.
THE JUDGE: This is going to be a difficult hearing.
MS TOCH: I am sorry. I do not think my opinion is important, with respect. He made the recommendation. It came before the court.
THE JUDGE: Look, I do not want to stop a witness coming to court and then meet submissions from you –
MS TOCH: I am not going to make those submissions, if I make that plain.
THE JUDGE: Yes, good.
MS TOCH: Yes.
THE JUDGE: So that has taken ten minutes. No counsel this morning at all and ten minutes and I am not being unreasonable about this."
"THE JUDGE: Everybody knew – let me be clear about this – there were going to be no trains this morning. It was very, very clear on the national media. Everybody knew. It was absolutely clear and I changed my travel plans accordingly, as did everybody else. Everybody knew and if I had been living in [counsel's home town in Kent], I would have made plans to avoid this disaster this morning. Be utterly clear about that.
MS TOCH: Yes. I can only apologise to the court. I did try. I really did try.
THE JUDGE: Well, I hope you have apologised to your client.
MS TOCH: I apologise to everybody in this court that has been inconvenienced.
THE JUDGE: Everybody knew that there were going to be no trains this morning.
MS TOCH: Yes.
THE JUDGE: So why you sat in [counsel's home town] last night waiting for there to be no trains, I do not know. It is ten to three and we have not even started –
MS TOCH: I am so sorry but sometimes people cannot leave the night before and I could not. …."
"THE JUDGE: Looked at them?
MS TOCH: Your honour has….Yes.
THE JUDGE: Just glanced?
MS TOCH: No, your honour.
THE JUDGE: I have analysed them. I have spent hours on this case…..I have gone through every line of the evidence. I have not just looked at it, Ms Toch. I take that as a straight insult."
SIR COLIN RIMER:
SULLIVAN LJ: